A Murphy, a Melvin, and a Wedgie

Even though you’re listening to this on podcast and not on the air, you can still call our toll-free number 877-929-9673, and you can still send us email to words@waywordradio.org, and you can still find us online at waywordradio.org.

You’re listening to A Way with Words. I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette. One of the fun things about Facebook is finding affinity groups that match your own passions. You can join groups of people who share your enthusiasm for a political cause or a sports team or getting Betty White to host Saturday Night Live. Awesome. Right, right. I’m in that group. Well, you can also find groups of people who are passionate about words and grammar. And the one that I joined most recently has the motto, Punctuation Saves Lives. And it’s a group called Let’s Eat Grandma or Let’s Eat, Grandma.

Very good. I’ve been a few of those myself. How about this one? Ambrose Bierce was the baddest ass lexicographer who ever lived. So it’d be fun, right? And my favorite ones are like the call and response songs from the 60s and 70s. You know, the old blues or the R&B style where one group makes a song and the second group releases a song that kind of answers back the first song. Well, they do that in Facebook groups. So you have I judge you when you use poor grammar.

Right.

And then there’s the response group, I judge you when you call acceptable usage poor grammar. And there’s I judge you when you judge me for using poor grammar. And one of my favorite groups on Facebook is people who always have to spell their names for other people.

Oh.

I mean, that’s the world, right? Don’t we all have to do that? Even John Smith has a problem. Come to think of it, yeah, it could be J-O-Wen, right?

Yeah, sure.

I also like, what are grammar? Well, drop us a line with the Facebook groups you think we should join, and we’d be happy to check them out. You can send it to words@waywordradio.org or give us a call, 1-877-929-9673.

And, you know, Grant, come to think of it, we’d be remiss if we didn’t mention our own page there. It’s facebook.com slash waywordradio. That’s W-A-Y-W-O-R-D radio. So drop by and see us.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Marsha from La Mesa, California.

Hi, Marsha.

Hello, Marsha.

Hi, Grant and Martha.

Hello, welcome. What’s up?

Well, I am looking for a term that describes a musical phenomenon.

And I have asked musicians and English teachers and many people over about 15 years, and nobody knows.

And the phenomenon is this.

You can sing the theme from Gilligan’s Island to the tune of Amazing Grace, and you can sing Amazing Grace to the tune of Gilligan’s Island, and each syllable and note fits.

Isn’t that odd?

You’re saying we can sing that?

I don’t know.

One can sing it.

One can do that.

And so the terms that people have offered, and I just don’t accept them, it’s not plagiarism.

It’s not a song parody.

And it’s just too good to be a coincidence.

Very interesting.

So let’s hear it.

Oh, no.

Well, okay.

I knew this would happen.

I hope your show’s not canceled over this.

Warm up those pipes.

Here’s the first one.

Would you say you hope our show isn’t canceled over this?

When you hear me sing, yes.

Take it off the air.

Here’s the first.

Just sit right back and hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip that started on this tropic port aboard this tiny ship.

And here’s the other one.

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost, but now I’m fond, was blind, but now I see.

Was blind, but now I see.

Yay!

That is marvelous.

I’m holding up my BIC right now.

That was great.

Thanks.

So people have told me that there are other examples, but I don’t know any other.

Oh, that was great.

So you need a name for this besides great fun, right?

Yes, I do.

Well, there are a couple of terms that fit this, but I’ve got to tell you, most of my experience with this kind of thing is from a radio program on the BBC called I’m Sorry, I Haven’t a Clue.

Have you ever heard this show?

No.

Okay, this has been on the air for like 30 years, although Humphrey Littleton, the host of the show, died a couple of years ago. I think it’s still in reruns.

And they have a segment on this show called One Song to the Tune of Another. It’s exactly what you’re talking about. And it is the funniest part of the show.

I mean, the whole show is a laugh and a gas and a goof, and they just kind of just basically mess around for a little while. My favorite, I think, was Kung Fu Fighting sung to the tune of Greensleeves, which I will not try to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, seriously, they make it work.

Grant, I had to. I don’t even know.

Yeah, that’s right. I don’t even know Greensleeves. I don’t even know Greensleeves.

Okay.

But, of course, Weird Al Yankovic did this a couple times, right?

Well, it was a parody, though, wouldn’t you think?

No, but he took the words to the theme song to the Beverly Hillbillies and sung it to the tune of Dire Straits’ Money for Nothing.

Wait a minute.

Do you remember this?

Wait a minute.

I didn’t know that. They even did a kind of 3D animated video that was like their video that was like the MTV played the heck out of. Like this is 20 years ago or more.

Oh, I’ll have to look that up online.

So this is my experience with this. And the only term that I know until I asked somebody about this that fits this comes from the science fiction world and a couple other kind of hobby worlds like the Society of the Creative Anachronisms.

Is that what it’s called? They have a term and other people in affiliated and related kind of hobbies in past time called filking, F-I-L-K.

Wow.

And a filk or to filk. A filk is a song where you know the tune. It’s a tune that everyone knows and you put new words to it. And usually it’s thematic according to whatever you’re performing.

So you might take, I don’t know, jingle bells and sing about knights and fair ladies and slaying dragons and so forth.

Okay.

So whatever. But they do this kind of thing. And it’s the kind of thing that you might do at a science fiction convention as kind of impromptu after dinner entertainment.

But there’s another term for this, and this one has got a lot more history behind it than the word filking, which dates probably to the 1960s. And this is a contrafactum.

A contrafactum is composing new text to older melodies. And really, this is something that you hear in hymns, where it’s a tune that’s used again and again, but new words are put to it. Sometimes in the same language, sometimes in another language.

But usually you make a sacred melody profane or vice versa, or just use the same kind of hymn tune. And this is because you don’t want to have to teach a congregation new music when you’ve got a new message.

Does that make sense?

Same thing with the Star Spangled Banner. That’s an old drinking song.

That’s right. And America the Beautiful is basically the same as God Saved the Queen.

Right, right.

So the word for that is contrafactum?

Yeah, it’s related to the English word counterfeit, which we get from French.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Of course.

But again, it’s not quite the same because it’s not a perfect swap of the two.

Right.

And I think Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star and The Alphabet Song do that.

Very good.

For that same reason. The tune’s already there and someone else could learn it. Even my three-year-old son has discovered that.

Oh, very good.

They’re the same, Papa.

I’m like, yes, they are, son.

I was going to ask Marcia if she’s an Emily Dickinson fan.

Well, I know that there, I remember hearing something about Emily Dickinson in relation to this topic, but I don’t remember what it is.

Right. Well, I think that all the Emily Dickinson purists should turn down their radios for about 30 seconds because of what I’m going to say.

Because it’s fun. Most of Emily Dickinson, I think, is written in iambic tetrameter. And so it’s got the same rhythm. Because I could not stop for death, he kindly stopped for me.

The carriage held but just ourselves and immortality.

And you can also do that to the House of the Rising Sun.

Because I could not stop for death, he kindly stopped for me.

The carriage held but just ourselves.

Anyway.

And Amazing Grace.

So it’s sort of, you know, you get this rhythmic skeleton and then you can put all these different things on it.

So bottom line, is there a word for this?

Is it Gilliganism maybe?

Well, we can call it contrafactum.

We can call these songs contrafacta, which is the plural, or we can call them filks or filking, but it’s really not very precise, is it?

Because we need to indicate that there’s a swap going on here.

You could even just call it a filk swap or a filking swap.

A filk swap.

Yeah.

An amazing swap.

An amazing swap.

I like that.

I like that.

Well, Marcia, something tells me we’re going to hear from a lot of people who have more examples.

Oh, that would be great.

I’ll keep listening, so I’ll hear them.

Okay.

Our pleasure, Marcia.

Thank you for calling.

-huh.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Well, send us your contra facta and your fun facts to words@waywordradio.org or call us 1-877-929-9673.

Hello.

You have A Way with Words.

Hi.

This is Rebecca Spence from Woodbridge, Connecticut.

I say the phrase fits and starts to my friends.

I’m in my 20s, and they all look at me like I’m crazy.

This apparently is not a phrase that my generation should be using.

So I’m wondering where it came from and if it means anything differently than the way that I’m using it.

How are you using it?

So the other day my dog was sick, and my friends asked me if he was feeling better, and I said, well, it comes in fits and starts, so I don’t really know.

Yeah, that’s good.

And what do they think you meant?

They just laughed at me.

They didn’t really comment on my dog’s well-being.

You know, people who have poor vocabulary shouldn’t make fun of people who have a good vocabulary.

That’s what I say.

Yeah.

What was going on with your dog?

He was just a little nauseous.

I think he had some dog food that was probably not the best for him.

Okay.

And so by fits and starts in that context, you mean his…

He was getting nauseous and then he’d be okay for a little while and then he’d get nauseous again.

Right, right.

So he was feeling nauseated intermittently, in other words.

Right, right.

Okay.

I still think that’s a totally fine usage though, right, Marth?

Yeah, I think it makes perfect sense.

And fits here, fits is probably what’s throwing them though.

Because we talk about somebody having a fit, but it’s kind of like a very isolated word in certain idiomatic expressions like having a fit or fits and starts.

And a fit is an outburst or a paroxysm or some other kind of like temporary, momentary, short-lived excitement.

And then a start.

Do you ever wake up suddenly out of sleep with all your legs and arms jerking?

I can’t say that I have, but it sounds horrible.

Well, no, but you’ve never woken up out of a half sleep where your body just kind of jerks as if you’ve been startled.

Have you seen the startle reflex on a baby?

Yeah.

There we go.

A start is that action, that startle that they do, that is also a start.

So when we talk about fits and starts, we’re talking about like a lot of herky-jerky kind of seizure-oriented kind of, you know, it’s not a smooth action at all.

Yeah, or maybe you’re sitting in class and your head goes down, down, down, down, down to the desk and then it goes back up.

Yeah, that’s a start.

I’ve never done that, right?

That’s right.

That’s a start.

Well, look, as far as I’m concerned, if your parents are older and they’re giving you a vocabulary your friends don’t have, this adds depth to you.

This adds texture to your awareness of language.

Right.

And basically, you span generations.

It’s a nice thing to be.

It’s a nice place to be because it makes, you know, you’re not completely of now.

You’re also of their time period, and I think that’s a nice thing.

Yeah, this is a linguistic inheritance.

Right.

Very good.

I like that.

Yeah.

You’re entitled to use that language because you gained it naturally.

It’s not like you were reading books of old slang and decided to just throw some in there for color.

You picked it up from your parents as a part of learning English.

And so it’s good that you have it, and it’s normal that you have it, and your friends should just, like, zip it.

If they’ve got a problem with the way you speak, seriously, give the show a call, and I’ll read them the riot act.

It’s very long.

Do you know what that means, to read the riot act?

Yes, yes, that’s another one.

Yeah, I bet.

You say that to your friends, and they’re looking at you like, what?

Riot act. But yeah, that’s another antiquated expression.

We’ll have a come to Jesus meeting.

All right. Come to Buddha. Okay.

Well, thank you very much for calling, Rebecca.

Thank you, Rebecca. Keep up the good work.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

1-877-929-9673

Or send the sad story an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Get ready to scratch your head and stretch your mind.

A Word Puzzle is coming up next.

Stay tuned to A Way with Words.

You’re listening to A Way with Words. I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette, and we’re joined once again by one of our quiz guys, Greg Pliska. Hi, Greg.

Hello, Martha. Hello, Grant.

Howdy, Greg.

What’s going on?

Well, it’s very good to see you. You know, I didn’t realize until we got together last week how much I missed you.

Oh, really?

You didn’t realize until then?

Yeah, well, I mean, I knew I missed you. I just didn’t realize how much I missed you.

Oh, my gosh.

Free coffee in the lobby.

What have you got for us?

I’ve got a little quiz that, well, it’s really just a straight-up trivia quiz spanning a range of subject areas.

-oh.

-oh.

Yeah.

But it should be easy for clever folks like the two of you.

I call it Who’s on Third?

And here’s how it works.

I’m going to give you two members of a well-known set of three, and you have to tell me the third.

For example, if I said Nina and Pinta, you would say?

Santa Maria.

Santa Maria, the three ships that Columbus sailed when he discovered the New World.

Right.

Now, I won’t always give these to you in the most obvious order like that.

Of course not.

No, I don’t want to make it too easy.

But I will always give you two, and you’ll name the third.

Okay.

Now, here’s your first one.

Okay.

Truth and justice.

American way.

The American way, that’s right.

The things that Superman fights for.

From the 1940s TV show.

Here’s another one.

Doric, Ionic.

And Corinthian.

Very nice.

Corinthian, two for two.

You know, I figured Grant would get the Superman one, but I knew Martha would get the Greek one.

Pitch, roll.

Yaw.

Yaw.

Yes, those are the three axes of movement for an airplane.

All right, here’s one for you.

Alvin, Simon.

Theodore.

Theodore.

Those are the chipmunks.

Here’s a different realm for you.

Okay.

Lies, damned lies.

And statistics.

And statistics, yes.

Famous phrase popularized by Mark Twain, though it’s not actually clear who originated it.

Going back to the ancient Greeks, unity of action, unity of time.

This is the three unities that are the core of a certain kind of storytelling, right?

That’s correct.

These are Aristotle’s dramatic unities.

So unity of action, unity of time, and unity of place.

Unity of place, exactly.

Very good.

Exactly.

Commonly the sort of rules of thumb for dramatic work.

From the sublime to the ridiculous, Steve Martin, Martin Short, and…

Martin Sheen.

Two guys who are funny, one guy who isn’t.

No.

I don’t know.

Steve Martin, Martin Short.

Martin Lawrence.

Famous trio, the three…

Oh, yeah, the three Caballeros.

The three Amigos.

Three Amigos, yeah.

Oh, Caballeros was the Disney animated film.

I can tell you have a young child.

Steve Martin, Martin Short, and…

Chevy Chase.

Chevy Chase is the third.

Oh, I missed that one.

Fran, Ali…

Kukla.

Kukla.

Oh, nice.

Kukla and Ollie, remember?

Yeah, you have to be of a certain age to know about this stuff.

That’s why I got it.

Those are the famous characters in an early TV show.

Fran the human, Kukla the clown-like puppet, and Ollie the one-toothed dragon.

How about this one?

Batting average, home runs.

RBIs.

RBIs.

Saber metrics.

I don’t know.

Those are the three stats that make up baseball’s batting triple crown.

Well, I’ll give you one more before we go.

All right.

Placido Domingo, or Placido Domingo, Luciano Pavarotti.

And Willie Nelson.

And Willie Nelson, the three greatest country singers.

Who is the third tenner?

I don’t know.

I don’t remember.

The Spanish guy.

Jose Carreras.

You took the least known one.

Tricky, tricky.

Oh, yeah, that last one was difficult.

It’s weird.

You can, like, do a full mental map of what Martha and I know about the world by these quizzes.

But why would you want to?

Strange big holes in knowledge.

Well, Greg, that was a lot of fun.

It was pretty interesting, too.

Sounds like you do a lot of work on these, and it shows.

Well, I try to earn my keep.

If you’d like to talk to us about grammar, slang, punctuation, words,

Or throw a few puzzles of your own at us,

Give us a call, 1-877-929-9673,

Or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Julianne from Chicago.

Hi, Julianne, welcome.

Hi, Julianne, welcome.

Hi, I am calling about a slang word,

Which is one of my favorite parts of the show, usually.

Woo-hoo!

And a word that just kind of,

I started using it,

And I didn’t realize it until I wrote it in an email to my boss,

And it made me pause.

But the word is props, and you would use it sort of as respect,

Like giving someone congratulations when they told you a cool story

Or when they finished a difficult task.

Like, for example, oh, I’ve got to give you props for dealing with that group of screaming kids.

I see.

So were you giving your boss props or asking for them?

I was saying that I was commending a fellow co-worker who I thought done a really good job with the project.

Oh, very nice.

I want to give her mad props for dealing with this crazy situation.

Not just props, but mad props.

Mad props.

Right.

You can put mad or crazy in front of it, which somehow means a whole lot.

Yeah, yeah.

It’s an emphasizing, right?

Yeah.

Well, this one, props, is at least a couple decades old.

As far as I know, it goes back to the 1970s, and it first popped up in black English

And was very common among young people and college students.

And so it’s really interesting as slang because it’s still alive.

It’s not one of those flash-in-the-pan slang terms that just is used for a little while then dies.

This one has got a lot of legs, which means it’s really useful.

And props is short for proper respect.

So if you want to give someone their proper respect, you’re giving them what they do.

And so it probably comes out of the young black male culture of knowing that a lot of getting along with everybody

Is making sure that you give people the respect that they’re owed.

You don’t diss or disrespect somebody.

Oh, I’ve got a wreath in my head right now.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, in respect, give me my proper.

So a diss is the opposite of props.

Okay, okay.

So proper respect is just a shortening of that.

And you’ll find this these days, you’ll even find it on television and news programs.

You’ll find it in some fairly sophisticated writing.

It is not the most formal of words.

It’s still informal and very slangy, but it’s incredibly widespread,

And there are many, many people like you who have it in their vocabulary,

Don’t know how it got there, and actually don’t even think twice about using it.

Yeah, not at all.

Do you know anything about the emphasizes using it?

On mad?

Yeah, mad is interesting because it kind of behaves as an adjective or an adverb

Depending on what word it’s in front of.

So you can say, I’m mad happy about that, or I’m mad cool, mad whack.

So it just means very.

It just makes more of whatever comes after it.

Just as a modifier.

That’s so interesting.

I had no idea it was that old.

Yeah, yeah.

It’s cool, right?

Well, not that the 70s are that old, but yeah.

Well, how old are you, Julianne?

How old are you, Julianne?

No, like this generation of college.

I’m only, I’m 22.

Okay, there we go.

Yeah, see, that’s great.

That’s fantastic.

This word is older than you are.

Yeah.

Don’t rub it in.

Don’t rub it in.

Hey, Julianne, mad props for calling.

Yeah.

Thanks, thanks.

Cheers.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Well, slang is hella cool.

Call us with your slang, 1-877-929-9673, or send your mad slang to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello.

You have A Way with Words.

Hey, this is Shane from Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Shane.

Welcome to the program.

Thanks.

What can we do for you?

Well, I have a question about the confusion of bring and take.

Okay.

-huh.

I never get those two confused, at least I don’t think I do,

And I’m always baffled by why other people do.

In fact, I remember when I was in the third grade in Mrs. Bynum’s reading class,

We had this grammar book that every page or two had a different grammar lesson.

And one day we came to the page that had bring and take.

And our teacher said, well, this is something we don’t confuse in the South.

I’m from Alabama originally.

So we just kind of turned the page and went on.

Yeah. So, I mean, I remember that because, you know, in the South, we have, you know, things like y’all and fixing that are kind of weird.

But this one thing we didn’t get wrong.

So it was a long time before I kind of heard that used incorrectly, probably when I was in college and was around people from other parts of the country.

And now I even hear it. I hear it in commercials. I hear it in movies.

I guess my question is, do I understand it the correct way? And why does it seem a lot of people get confused?

Now, Shane, how do you understand it?

And before I ask you that, did you say, let me carry you to the store?

No, I did not say that.

Okay.

That would be common, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Some people in Alabama say, let me carry you to the store.

That’s very true.

So, Shane, where you come from, you would take a girl out to the dance, and then you would bring her home before midnight, right?

Exactly.

That’s why you would use take and bring.

Oh, that’s a good example.

Right.

But, you know, I hear people say things like, you know, I need a ride to the doctor.

Can you bring me to the doctor?

Like, no, I can’t bring you there. I can take you there, but I can’t bring you there.

But I understand, yeah.

And why do you think there’s a difference? What’s the difference exactly between bring and take?

I think it has to do with where you are.

So you can bring something to me or I can take something away from me, if that makes sense.

So if you were inviting me to your house for dinner, I could say, what should I bring to your house?

I would think you would probably say, what should I take?

Yeah, I think it’s confusing.

And you know what?

I grew up not seeing any difference and not being taught any difference at all.

So I guess I’m in that big swath of people who don’t see a difference.

But once I got older, I realized that there are some people who really get rubbed the wrong way,

If you use bring or take, in a different way like that.

And so I’ve tried to change my speech just because the people who get annoyed by it, like you, are annoyed by it.

And the people like me, who didn’t learn anything else, don’t know the difference.

Yeah, I guess to me it’s just crystal clear.

It’s like you wouldn’t mix up he and she, right?

They’re just two totally different concepts.

That’s so interesting.

Grant, did you grow up with that difference?

Well, I learned it somewhere along the way, but it’s one of those things.

It isn’t crystal clear for me.

And the more I look at the data, I start to see that historically that bring and take both have intermeshing uses and meanings.

And so they’re not, I can see from the data that they’re not perfectly separated and they’re not very distinct in the way that they’re used.

I do know that some people make a big to-do out of certain cases.

Like you don’t take me that book. You would say bring me that book, right?

Correct.

So there’s some stuff like that absolutely you would never do.

Just the same way you would never say, I’m going to bring two donuts out of that box.

No, you’re going to take two donuts out of that box, right?

So there’s some stuff there that is clear, but there’s a middle ground there where bring and take overlap almost perfectly.

And the difficulty here is how one perceives the importance of the subject and the object, it sounds like to me.

And so whether or not you think something is being done to someone or someone is doing something else.

See what I’m saying?

So which one is performing the action?

Bring her to the party. Take her to the party.

Kind of a close call.

Oh, okay.

You know, the song is take me out to the ballgame. It’s not bring me out to the ballgame.

That’s a good way. Right?

Yeah.

Right.

At least in that case, is it more clear cut or is that just kind of in the gray area?

Yeah, but we’re also talking about a phrasal verb here because it’s take out.

That’s the take and out working together in a phrasal verb.

It’s not just take on its own.

And you’ll find again and again with bring and take that they often work with prepositions.

And that changes the way that they work.

It changes the way that they fit into the sentence and the way that we understand their meaning.

But if I were already at the ballgame and I called you on my cell phone and I said, Shane, get Grant to, I’d say to bring you to the ballgame.

Absolutely.

Yeah, very good.

Very good.

One of the best distinctions is that bring is about incoming and take is about outgoing.

All right.

All right.

Does that work for you, Shane?

That works for me.

Thanks very much.

We’ll provide some links to the different sides of this argument about bring and take.

We’ll try to find some really conservative points of view and some very progressive points of view and see if we can’t put these together so that people can kind of find their middle road on bring and take.

Okay?

Great. Sounds good.

Thanks a lot, Shane.

Thank you so much, Shane.

Thank you.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Well, bring us your questions.

Take a moment and send an email to words@waywordradio.org or take the phone up in your hand and call us 1-877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hey, this is Chris from San Diego.

Hello, Chris.

Hiya, Chris. Welcome to the program.

Thank you.

What can we do for you?

Well, about a month ago, I was out backpacking with some of my friends, and when I cinched my waist belt, I exclaimed, Wow, that gave me a Murphy.

And they all looked at me kind of strangely, and so I quickly corrected myself, and I said, Oh, the belt gave me a wedgie. And so as we’re hiking, this led to some great conversation.

And none of them had ever heard of the word Murphy. And so it got me wondering if I had, in fact, made up this word. And when I got back to San Diego, I did a little bit of informal research.

And I asked some of my colleagues and some of my fifth grade students if they had ever heard of the word Murphy. And a few of them had. And then I called my mom and she said she learned the word from me when I was about junior high school age. I basically am just curious about the origin of the word and also if there’s a difference between the word wedgie and Murphy.

Oh, it’s a big debate. And a fine distinction, I’m sure.

Well, I called my sister. She lives in Paris. And I said, you know, am I making this word up? And she said, no. But a wedgie is something, she said, you give someone. And a Murphy is something that just nature gives to you automatically.

That’s what she said.

When life gives you Murphys, make lemonade.

What? No, I don’t know. Something.

So you were in junior high about what year, about what time?

I would have been in junior high in mid-80s.

Okay, good, good, good, good.

That kind of sinks here.

Yeah, because you’re absolutely right.

Murphy isn’t something that you made up, and it’s got enough history that it pops up here and there in some of the slang dictionaries.

Pamela Monroe mentioned it in her slang, you, book from 1990. She got her data from college students. It probably at least dates to the 80s, maybe to the 70s. Have you ever had a Melvin? Well, I’m sure I have. And I have heard of this word as all. But again, I don’t know if there’s a difference between all of these.

Well, I don’t know if I’ve had a Melvin or not.

Well, there we go. Because the thing is, a Melvin is either a wedgie or a Murphy, or it’s another whole thing altogether, which I’ll describe in just a second. I just want to say for the record, from a dictionary editor standpoint, that slang is really loosey-goosey.

It tends not to be overly well defined.

That is one of the characteristics of slang.

That is part of the reason that it is called slang.

And so some people do believe that a wedgie is something that is done to you where you walk up behind somebody, you jerk the band of the underwear and just drag it up into the unmentionable parts of the body, into the nether region.

You know, it’s very uncomfortable.

And we’ve seen it a million times in movies and cartoons and television shows, right?

But a lot of people, if you look in the data when they’re writing about it on their blogs or their personal letters or even in books and so forth, movie transcripts and that sort of thing.

A lot of times people do use a wedgie as the thing that happens accidentally too, just when your underwear creeps up the wrong way and it’s not really situated well.

And then a Murphy is kind of the same story.

And then there’s the atomic wedgie, which is another old thing altogether.

No, yes.

My mom, when I was talking to my mom, she said, Oh, you girls had so many words.

There was the major Murphy.

Oh.

And for short, we just said the Murph.

The Murph, yeah.

The Murph.

Well, because it’s uncomfortable.

The nice thing about Murphys and wedgies and so forth is it’s universal, right?

The nice thing?

Well, I’m just saying, like, you can share your misery with other people.

So, you know, put a name to your pain and talk about it.

And you need an abbreviation for the thing, right?

I mean, there are certain kinds of undergarments that you can wear where this doesn’t happen.

But, you know, you’re not always so lucky.

But as for the origins of Murphy, it’s deep in the orig-unk files, origin unknown.

Don’t say deep into anything.

I’m just saying, you know, it’s lost in the crevices of time.

We’ll never know.

We have no idea.

But the thing is, there’s an idea, one idea, with no data whatsoever, but just somebody’s supposition is that it is related to an old-fashioned name for long johns.

Oh, really?

Oh, it doesn’t have anything to do with pulling down a Murphy bed?

That’s what I thought it was.

I don’t think so.

No? Okay.

I don’t think so.

Okay.

So it was a kind of long johns.

But no, no data whatsoever.

It’s like somebody made that up on a weekend after too many beers and so forth.

My fifth graders are really going to enjoy this.

Okay, okay.

So you’re a teacher at a school.

You have fifth graders.

Mm—

Oh, very good.

Corrupting young minds.

Right.

Yeah, perfect time.

Yes, yes.

I’m very excited for them to hear me on national radio.

As are we.

You’ve been a fantastic guest, Chris.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.

Okay, take care.

Okay, bye.

Well, if you’ve got another name for the Wedgie or the Melvin or the Murphy, give us a call or send us an email, 1-877-929-9673, or words@waywordradio.org.

Stay tuned for more reality radio from Wordville. That’s next on A Way with Words.

Support for A Way with Words comes from National University, where flexible online classes let you earn your degree or credential on your schedule. Learn more at nu.edu.

You’re listening to A Way with Words. I’m Martha Barnette. And I’m Grant Barrett.

Martha, you know, in my other life, or is it all the same life? I don’t know. I’m the editor of the Among the New Words column in the academic journal American Speech. But in this column, it’s just about new words, exactly what it sounds like. And in the latest issue, which was published in January, I decided to do rhyming verb and noun phrases. And so I don’t think you’ve read that column, right?

No, no, I haven’t.

Wait, you don’t read everything that I write?

Not yet. You know, it’s all stacked up on the night table.

Well, that’s good, because I’m going to quiz you and find out if you can figure out what some of these things mean.

Oh, my gosh. Right here in front of everybody.

I know. It’s terrible. All right. Here’s an easy one to start. What does cuff and stuff mean?

Cuff and stuff?

Is it a kind of upholstery?

Cuff and stuff. Cuff and cuff and cuff. Who cuffs people?

Oh, is it like police?

Yeah, exactly. Police cuff you and then they stuff you into the car.

Okay. That’s cuff and stuff. And that’s actual police jargon?

Yeah, it is actually a cuff and stuff. Dates back at least as far as 1984.

Well, here’s another police-related one. What are the cherries and the blueberries?

The cherries and the blueberries. They’re not opposing teams. That must be the lights on top of the cars, right?

Very good. You might remember your CB slang, your trucker slang from the 1970s. The cherries on the top of it. Smokey bear, yeah.

Sure, yeah. Okay, here’s one that you might guess right away. Actually, there’s two. They mean the same thing. Chew and screw, eat it and beat it.

I beg your pardon?

They’re not dirty.

Oh, they’re not?

No, no, naughty woman. No. Chew and screw and eat it and beat it. Chew and screw sounds like me trying to open a wine bottle and not having much luck.

Gnawing at it with your teeth to get the cork out.

Very nice. I get it. I can picture that. And what’s the other one?

Chew and screw and—

That would explain the dental bills.

And eat it and beat it. Eat it and beat it. Well, that’s a film of somebody having breakfast.

No, you’re too good. You’re too sainted.

Played backwards.

No, no, no. It’s dining and dashing. It’s when you eat at a restaurant and then you leave before paying the bill.

Oh. See, I knew you wouldn’t get it because it’s not the type of thing you would.

Because I would never do that.

That’s right. No, absolutely not. And do you know what LASIK surgery is sometimes called?

LASIKs?

You know LASIK?

Yeah. You know where they use a laser on your eye to make it so you don’t have to wear glasses anymore?

Yeah, keratotomy.

Well, that’s the fancy word, but they also call it flap and zap. You never heard that one?

Flap and zap 2020. Anyway, I got a million of these. They are in the Journal of American Speech. We’ll share a few more later in the program.

I’d love to hear them. Well, if you’d like to talk about language with us, words and phrases, rhyming phrases, old family sayings, slang, or maybe a dispute you’re having over language, call us 1-877-929-9673. That’s 1-877-WAYWORD. Or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi.

Hi, who’s this?

This is Carol.

Hi, Carol. Welcome to the program.

Thank you. Where are you calling?

I’m calling from Lawrenceville, Georgia.

What can we do for you?

Well, I was watching, I was kind of channel surfing a couple weekends ago, and I came across one of the old Pink Panther movies with Peter Sellers. And there was a scene where the maniacal supervisor, the one that he drives crazy, I can’t think of what his name is. He’s torturing the scientist’s beautiful daughter. And you can see her sitting there. She’s all tied up on a chair. And what he does is he drags some metallic fingernails down a blackboard.

Yeah. And then I’m watching another program a couple of days later, and it takes place in a classroom, but they don’t have blackboards or chalkboards. They have whiteboards. My question is, you know, will that shuddering image that you get when you think about fingernails on a blackboard, will that kind of just go by the wayside, or will there be something else that takes its place, or…

Interesting question.

Yeah, we grew up with blackboards, and there’s nothing worse, right?

No. I mean, all you have to do is say it to somebody, and they shudder.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can get the sensation.

Yeah. So you’re saying if we don’t have chalkboards or blackboards, then what will people say when they want to evoke the idea that something is really unsettling and kind of makes your skin crawl and the hair is going off in the back of your neck?

Well, for me, it would just be irregardless. Hopefully, that won’t be a problem.

Well, I want to argue with your basic premise, Carol, but I think it’s a great question. And here’s why. As I understand it from my friends who are teachers in grade school, is that even though whiteboards are far more common, they still rely on chalk because it’s the least messy thing that they can use. Whiteboards, even with erasable markers, are really messy. And you soon end up with a bunch of little people with red splotches and speckles all over their hands and their clothes and their faces and stuff. Again, even though it’s washable, it still takes some time. And chalk, on the other hand, you just brush it and you walk away.

You’ve never been an eraser clapper then, Grant.

Yeah.

I was an eraser clapper for sure.

You were probably a hall monitor too and a snitch. I know your type.

I was always an eraser clapper. That was an honor. Me, me, me.

You’re like Hermione Granger.

I am Hermione Granger with chalk all over me.

Absolutely. Milk monitor, right. So at least we can hope that until they start using whiteboards at a later date, the younger kids do know what a blackboard or a chalkboard is.

I’m pretty sure. I mean, my son’s preschool has tons of this stuff. I’ve seen it in other preschools and daycares and a variety of other places at least the youngest age. And even on some of my son’s television shows, he watches a lot of PBS stuff, they use blackboards and chalkboards in the classrooms that they show in, like, the live action sequences.

Well, and what about Glenn Beck? I mean, think about Glenn Beck. He’s always up there with a blackboard. And, you know, maybe the expression will evolve into that sounds like Glenn Beck on a chalkboard.

There you go. But if we were to come up with something that sounded kind of like, you know, to describe that kind of creepy feeling that you get when somebody scrapes their fingernails down a blackboard, what would it be?

I don’t know. I don’t know. Water dripping in a pail. I don’t know. The sound of Lady Gaga on a broken iPod. I don’t know what it would be. Something like that.

How about brakes on a train? No, that sounds so much like brakes on a plane.

Like a phonograph needle on a record.

Well, they’re not going to know what that is.

They’re not going to know what that sound is either. And I suspect you’re right that we’re evolving away from the blackboard. I mean, it may be that the term stays and it just becomes one of those things, like some other phrases, where you know what it means, but you don’t actually see it.

Right, right. Dial a phone and turn on a light and so forth.

Right, or you see somebody in email.

Well, I mean, when’s the last time you made a carbon copy of anything, you know?

Right, right. Exactly.

Very good.

Yeah. You know, but I think this is a good one, Carol, to throw out to the rest of our listeners. Just chime in if you’ve got something. What is the modern equivalent of scratching your fingers on a blackboard?

I can’t even, even just hearing that. I have the feeling Grant’s going to go out and find himself a chalkboard.

Oh, no. It really works, too.

I like you to know that I really, I less than three your show.

Oh, fantastic.

Glad to hear it.

We less than two.

But we hurt you, too.

That’s great.

Thank you very much.

Carol, it’s been a pleasure.

Thank you.

Drop us a line sometime.

Bye-bye.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Well, drop us a line if you can help Carol out.

What is the modern equivalent of the scratching of fingers on a blackboard?

What evokes that same kind of sensation?

What’s a really nice little phrase or a way to put that?

1-877-929-9673 or send it in email to words@waywordradio.org.

That’s W-A-Y-W-O-R-D.

Martha, we got an interesting voicemail from Misty in upstate New York.

She’s asking, where did the phrase chicky wah-wah come from?

She says her husband uses it and her mother-in-law uses it and they think it’s funny.

It’s an imitation of the cheesy bass line in porn movies.

Do you know what she’s talking about?

Of course I don’t.

People do that, right?

If you’re talking about something romantic and you want to kind of indicate that something naughty happened, right?

You go, bow, chicka, bow, bow.

You were like, yes, Susan and I went out on a date last night.

We had a very lovely dinner at El Fromaggio.

And then you go, pow, pow, pow.

You’re indicating that later they got it on.

You know, they got busy.

You know what I’m saying, right?

Grant, in all honesty, I’ve never heard that.

Martha, there’s a whole wide world out there.

Catch up.

No, in any case, I find it as early as 1988 referring to the theme of the Shaft movies from the early 1970s.

So it’s incredibly common.

It’s the kind of thing that stand-up comics use, and it’s in movies and television shows and books.

And, of course, online people use it.

It’s always to indicate that there’s something sexy or, you know, kind of just people getting it on, getting busy.

Oh, do you think that’s what’s going on in the Seinfeld theme music?

No, I don’t know, but it is a heavy bass line.

It’s similar.

I actually went to high school with the guy who wrote that, Johnny Wolfe.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah.

Hi, John.

Well, send us your questions about where something comes from to words@waywordradio.org.

Or give us a call at 1-877-WAYWORD.

That’s 929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Natalie McIntyre.

I’m calling from Barroquia, Wisconsin.

What’s on your mind?

I’m calling.

I haven’t lived in Wisconsin for very long.

And a couple weeks ago, we had some amazing frost here in the morning that I had never seen before.

And people around town were calling it hoarfrost, and they spelled it H-O-A-R, hoarfrost.

And I’m just wondering where that term comes from.

What does it look like?

Well, it kind of comes in different sorts of shapes.

So the most amazing stuff was on some branches and also on picket fences.

And the best way I can describe it is that it sort of looks like the spikes on the back of a dragon.

Like one inch long or so spiky things sticking out from different things where the frost might develop, I guess, overnight.

Not just dripping and turning into icicles, though, right?

Oh, no, no. Like growing out.

Like a small version of Superman’s Fortress of Solitude.

I don’t know if I know that.

Come on now.

Half the audience got it?

Okay.

I didn’t, don’t worry.

The thing to note is this has happened, I guess, about three mornings in a row.

And it was very foggy.

So I think it must happen when there’s a lot of moisture in the air.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, whorefrost is a beautiful thing.

It’s not like a web or it’s not like even the frost that you see on glass,

Which has got that crazy kind of almost fractal looking, but it’s like little spikes.

It’s almost like candy crystals.

You ever seen candy crystals made like in some old-timey tourist trap, you know, where they dip the stick in?

Right, the sugar ones.

Yeah, like rock candy.

Exactly, when it crystallizes on the stick.

It’s a little more like that, but spiky, right?

Yeah.

And in all directions.

And it looks a lot sharper than it is.

It just falls apart if you touch it.

That’s right, yeah.

Yeah, hoarfrost is a really interesting word.

We should say it has nothing to do with the ladies of the evening or women of ill repute.

So H-O-A-R comes to us from German, more or less,

Where there’s a similar word that means distinguished or noble or venerable or majestic.

And apparently it referred to the white hair of an elder, of a respected person,

Like a father, a grandfather, a mother, or the matriarch of a long line of people.

And it really does, right?

It kind of looks like the wispy white locks of hair of an older person, doesn’t it?

Right. And distinguished seems like a great term for it.

It looks very beautiful.

We’ve had it in English since about 1300.

It’s used in Beowulf, believe it or not.

And hori has kind of diverged to mean several different things.

So besides meaning white with age, it can also mean covered with pale hairs.

It can mean overused or old.

So a lot of different kind of paths it’s taken there.

And I think in German it’s related to the German hair, H-E-R-R, you know, hair barret.

Distinguished barret.

But it’s a great word.

Usually you’ll find not the noun form hor, but the adjective form hori is far more common.

It’s a very common journalist love it when they’re making fun of something that they think is outdated or old-fashioned.

And it’s also very literary.

A hoary old saying or something like that.

That’s right.

Yeah.

We’ll find some pictures online.

It is cool stuff.

It’s very cool.

Well, thank you for letting me know where it comes from.

Our pleasure.

Thank you for calling, Natalie.

Okay.

Okay.

Bye-bye.

Take care.

If you’ve got a question about a word that you encountered in day-to-day living, this is just the place to call, 1-877-929-9673.

Or send us an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Hi there. This is Lan from Laguna Beach.

Hello, Lan. Welcome to the program.

Hi. Thanks, Kent.

What can we do for you?

Well, I was emailing a fellow mom about getting our kids together,

And in part of her email response, she kind of explains that she’s an English major

And she has the knack for syntax and grammar,

That I was spelling the possessive form of my son’s name incorrectly.

And since I have to deal with the rest of my life,

And she thought she would correct me.

And his name is Hendrix with an X.

And I was spelling it with an X apostrophe.

So I’m utterly confused because I looked it up,

And I think I totally confused myself between the plural form and the possessive form.

Hendrix, that’s a great name.

How old is your kid?

Four.

Four.

Okay, yeah.

And so is he after the musician?

Actually, he is, yes.

My husband plays bass guitar.

So H-E-N-D-R-I-X.

Right.

Well, you know, in my family, that is a family name.

It’s my father’s middle name, and he is the fourth generation of someone to have that as a middle name.

So it’s the same spelling.

So your question is, how do you make it possessive?

And you’ve been just putting an apostrophe at the end, right?

Yeah, like all my birthday invitations, Hendrix’s third, Hendrix’s fourth.

And if I’ve been spelling it wrong, I think I should be correcting it from this point forward.

Yeah, I don’t think you need to recall the invitations or anything.

No, no, no. And there’s no mea culpa’s due here. I think this is a forgivable…

Oh, sure. If you’re talking about his birthday, then you say Hendrix’s birthday?

Yeah.

Yeah.

When you’re talking aloud, when you say it out loud, that’s what you say, right?

You don’t say Hendrix’s birthday.

Right, exactly.

Yeah.

And I think you’ll find that you’ll see lots of different rules for this.

But my rule, my personal rule, is just punctuate it the way it sounds.

And to me, you would put an S on the end of that.

Hendrix’s, apostrophe S, Hendrix’s.

Because that’s the way you say it.

I mean, I tend to lean towards simplicity in grammar and consistency.

And I think that makes the most sense, but it’s not terrible to do it the other way.

Okay, so it’s not, well, it seems so cumbersome to do X apostrophe S,

Because sometimes, if you just only phonetically speaking,

Sometimes we just do, say, Hendrick’s car.

You know, it kind of rolls off, so it’s not.

But if it’s grammatically like a major blunder, I mean, of course, I’ll do the X apostrophe S.

I mean, is there a steadfast rule?

Well, you’re right.

If you’re talking about his swimsuit, you know, it’s probably going to come out like Hendrix’s swimsuit, right?

Yeah.

Rather than Hendrix’s swimsuit.

But I’m with you, Martha.

I think, and this is no, this is not a terrible misstep.

This is not a big boo-boo.

This is nothing to like, you know, beat yourself up over.

Yeah, you don’t have to change the kid’s name.

No.

Apostrophe S.

Apostrophe S is the best choice.

The apostrophe is the second best choice.

Your friend, though, probably, even though she may have thought she was doing a favor and it sounds like she was kind of nice about it, she’d mind her own business.

Oh, yeah.

But I do appreciate the fact that she did bring it to my attention.

Okay.

Okay, good.

Because, yeah.

Because she gets to talk to us.

Yeah, it kind of falls in that spinach in the teeth category, right?

Like the fly down territory.

It’s like, do you tell them, do you not?

And I appreciate it.

Sometimes we go ahead and tell somebody even though it’s none of our business.

So I don’t know what your relationship with her is.

Maybe you’re good enough friends where you can just laugh this off.

But most people are going to choose the apostrophe S.

Right.

So no need to issue a formal apology or anything like that.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Happy birthday to the little man.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Thank you for calling.

Bye.

Well, if you’re having a grammar dispute with somebody, give us a call, 1-877-929-9673, or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Things have come to a break.

That’s our show for this week.

If you didn’t get on the air today, you can leave us a message anytime.

That number is 1-877-929-9673.

Or email us.

The address is words@waywordradio.org.

Stay in touch with us all week by following us on Twitter.

We’re there under the username WayWord.

Stefanie Levine is our senior producer.

Our technical director and editor is Tim Felten.

We’ve had production help this week from Josette Herdell and Jennifer Powell.

From Studio West in San Diego, I’m Martha Barnette.

And from San Francisco, I’m Grant Barrett.

Thanks to Howard Gelman for engineering our show from the studios of KQED Radio.

Shalom.

Bye-bye.

You say either, and I say either.

Support for A Way with Words comes from National University, where flexible online classes let you earn your degree or credential on your schedule.

Learn more at nu.edu.

Hi, it’s Martha.

Did you know that A Way with Words is independently produced by a small nonprofit?

To keep bringing you the show, we need your help.

We welcome your contributions of any size.

Go to waywordradio.org, click on membership.

Your donations do add up, and they make this program possible.

Thanks.