The Language of Less Than Three

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You’re listening to A Way with Words. I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett.

Ever since Milton Glaser put a big red heart in the famous I love New York motto, instead of the word love, lots of people have made the joke that it’s really I heart New York.

You can do it with all kinds of knockoffs, too, like I heart my Labradoodle bumper stickers.

You’ve seen those, Martha?

Yeah, yeah.

And people say that, right?

I heart my Doberman.

Right.

I heart my honor student.

Right, or I spade my Doberman.

There we go.

I’ve seen that as well.

And you can even be in heart with someone as a result, which is one of those things that’s on one hand kind of horrific.

Is there a knife involved to be in an argument with somebody?

I don’t know.

And it’s kind of charming as well.

Well, in certain kinds of casual typing, a heart is made by a less than sign and the number three.

If you look at it sideways, it looks like a heart, right?

Right.

So naturally, of course, now you can, and people do bring that love to the silly side by saying things like, I less than three you my schmoopsy poo.

I less than three you.

Yeah, yeah. Or they say, will you ever bracket three me again, darling?

So because some people pronounce those as a bracket instead of a less than sign.

And so it’s interesting that a human craziness knows no bounds.

Oh, my gosh. Well, we knew that.

So that’s your new word of the week. I love that.

I mean, I mean, I less than three that. That’s great.

Well, I was going to bring up an old word, which actually there’s several old words in Latin that meant to kiss.

The Romans had several different words.

One of my favorites, though, is oscula, which is a kind of friendly kiss.

And from that, we get the English word that we almost never hear, but maybe we should try to popularize, osculate, which means to kiss.

Very nice.

And that reminds me of another word, exosculate, which is to kiss heartily.

Oh, it’s not to kiss your ex?

No, no, no.

And I learned that word from the forgotten English word of the day calendar.

I flipped forward to my birthday to see what the word of the day was, and wouldn’t you know it, on my birthday, it’s exosculate, kiss heartily.

So pucker up on my birthday.

I like snog better, though.

Well, if you have a favorite word that you’d like to talk about or a question about language, give us a call.

1-877-929-9673.

We’d love to hear from you.

And the email address is words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Mary, and I live in Allen, Texas.

Hello, Mary.

Welcome to the program.

I am originally from Houston, Texas.

My father is from, well, my father’s passed away, but he was from past Christian, Mississippi, and my mother was from Chester, Texas, which is in East Texas.

Okay, so I grew up with the expression, waste not, want not.

And I’m married to a lovely person who grew up in New York who laughs every time I say that.

Laughs?

Yes.

Why?

He thinks it’s ridiculous and it doesn’t make any sense.

And so consequently, I have two fabulous children who also laugh when I say it.

Poor mama.

You know, and I don’t know whether I say this because people in Houston or Texas say it or if it came from Mississippi with my father, but clearly the sophisticated people of New York don’t say it according to my husband.

-huh.

Well, now, what kind of context would you say this in, Mary?

Well, you know, the kids can be throwing out something.

Oh, I don’t want these shoes anymore.

They still fit, but I don’t want them.

And my comeback would be, you know, waste not, want not.

And they don’t get what I mean.

They think that I want them to hang on to this particular thing forever because at some point in the future they’re going to want it.

But that’s not what I mean when I say that.

It’s more of like a philosophy on life.

You know, if you don’t make a habit of throwing things away and wasting things, you won’t get to a point in the future where you needed things and you don’t have them because you made a habit of wasting.

Right.

But they don’t get that.

They think it’s funny.

So when I say it, I get snickers.

Yeah, it’s about the habit.

That’s the important part of it, right?

Yeah, they don’t get it.

This is such an old, basic idea on how to be a good person, about not wasting things.

And I think the waste not, want not is such a perfect crystallization of that concept.

I think it’s exactly the thing to say when somebody’s being wasteful.

It’s exactly the right thing to say.

I’m so glad to hear you say that.

This proverb is so ingrained into the – it appears in French and Dutch and Russian and Swedish and Spanish.

There’s like some variation of this idea in absolutely every language that I can check.

Really?

And it’s because we live now in a time of bounty and in a time of abundance.

And this is a rare moment in history where people could eat well and live well all together where most of us are doing okay.

And even the poorest of us are doing far better than people 200 years ago.

So this idea of not wasting is still a message that needs to be transmitted.

What I think is happening here is they know exactly what you mean, and they’re just pulling your chain.

You think so?

That’s exactly what it is.

Because you sound really excited about it.

You sound a little worked up, and I think they want to see what Mama’s going to do when they pull her chain a little bit.

You might be right.

Sometimes my husband will even say something like, well, they say that in Chester, Texas.

Or places in Chester, Texas.

But I think this expression, it’s sort of mathematical in its elegance and simplicity.

There’s something really beautiful about it.

And to me, Mary, I think it also has kind of a biblical incantation, don’t you think?

I mean, I think about passages in Scripture like, fear not or judge not, waste not, want not.

I mean, it’s so efficient.

I should say that the history of this particular construction goes back 300 years or so, maybe even more.

And there are a variety of versions going back to the 1500s in English.

And, of course, this has been settled in a lot of different ways in English because, as I mentioned before, just not wasting things is so—

It’s such an important part of continuing to be a surviving civilization, you know?

Especially these days, yeah.

Civilization is built upon conservation and the reservation of your resources and not the wasting of them.

Well, Mary, you sound like you feel better.

I do feel—I feel vindicated.

Yes.

It makes perfect, perfect sense.

We’ve loaded you up with ammunition, Mary.

Go off to battle.

Oh, thank you so much, and thanks for the opportunity to be on the show.

Okay, well, thank you for calling, Mary.

You’re welcome. Bye-bye.

Best of luck. Bye-bye.

The Family Counselors.

Give us a call, 1-877-929-9673, or send your language dilemmas to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, my name is Sarah, and I’m calling from San Diego.

Well, hi, Sarah.

Hello, Sarah.

Hi.

I was just wondering how you guys felt when people talk in text.

It’s becoming more popular with my coworkers and my sister.

She does it a lot, and it kind of gets under my skin when she does it because she can just say the words.

But I was just wondering how you guys felt about that.

Talking in text.

You’re taking the acronyms that you use, say, on the telephone or in instant messaging and speaking them aloud as if they were words on their own, right?

Yeah, like my co-worker that I work next to a lot, she got up and walked away and as she left she said BRB, which is be right back, instead of just saying the words.

Well, when I worked in the restaurant business, a BRB was a big roast beef, but never mind.

So that’s what I think of when people say that.

Yeah.

Mmm, roast beef.

How old is your sister?

My sister is about 28, I think.

28?

And your coworkers, are they follow in that range too?

They’re in their 20s, yeah.

In their 20s.

And do they do this with like a laugh or a grin?

Is it kind of whimsical or sarcastic or ironic or anything like that?

No, not really.

She just kind of said it and dashed off.

And so came back and just continued, we continued our conversation.

Huh.

And what kind of work do you do?

I’m sorry?

What kind of work do you do, sir?

I work at In-N-Out Burger. It’s a restaurant in San Diego.

Okay.

In-N-Out Burger. Love the fries. You guys do great work.

Thanks.

It’s kind of ordinary to be pronouncing text slang or text acronyms aloud.

LOL is the big one that I know a lot of people use.

And they usually do it sarcastically, which is why I asked you.

They’ll go, LOL, or they’ll talk about something’s really funny.

They’ll be like, yeah, I said this thing online and I got big LOLs or big LOLs, meaning they got lots of laughs.

Or laughing out loud.

They have everybody laughing out loud, right?

Yes.

No, the thing is, like, it doesn’t actually, it kind of stands for that, but it’s moved on.

When it’s pluralized, it means laughs or laughter.

Lots of lols.

Yeah, lots of lols.

And if you say lol out loud, you’re usually being sarcastic about it or usually being, like, a little kind of knowingly ironic.

Maybe that’s redundant.

Yeah, when they say LOL or LOL or JK, they kind of do say it with a little bit of sarcasm.

Yeah, the eyebrows go up and the face has a smirk and that sort of thing, right?

Yeah, JK, just kidding.

But here’s the thing.

I’m not surprised to find in people in their 20s, if you’re using it in your 30s, I would be really surprised.

And I actually think it’s the kind of slang that’s going to pass away as the novelty wears off.

And you usually find that with this sort of thing.

Okay.

And you know what?

Here’s the thing.

As long as they’re not doing it in business meetings, where’s the harm, right?

No, yeah, no.

But Sarah, you find it a little irritating just because it’s so kind of self-conscious and knowy and winky?

Yeah, well, I’ll tell my sister, well, we’re not on the phone, we’re talking.

So why do you say that?

Right, as if saying the fully elaborated form is so difficult that they have to abbreviate it.

Yeah.

You can’t just say be right back?

Yeah.

BRB? It’s the same number of syllables.

Well, what about TMI for too much information?

I like that.

I use that, TMI.

Yeah, you know what?

Yeah, that one’s older.

There are plenty of acronyms that we do say aloud and don’t think twice about it.

Okay being the obvious, most common candidate.

Or he was AWOL.

Yeah, AWOL.

ASAP.

ASAP, definitely.

FYI.

We do all of these things.

Most of these, though, I believe will fall away and become some relic of the 2000s and the 90s.

And I think that we’ll find that by, say, 2040, that they’ll exist only in historical texts.

It’ll sort of be like the bee’s knees today or the cat’s pajamas.

Yeah, yeah.

The cat’s pajamas of tomorrow.

When they make movies set in 2007, they’ll use that language because they’ll think everyone spoke that way.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you guys very much.

It was a good question.

Thanks for calling, Sarah.

Okay, bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

BT Dubs, you can give us a call, 1-877-929-9673.

And if we make you lol, send us an email to words@waywordradio.org.

So, Grant, I’m reading this book from 1898 called The Kiss and Its History.

Oh, nice.

Right up your alley, right?

And it talks in there about all these different words for different kinds of kisses in different languages.

And I love this line from the book.

He says, would it be possible to think of a more excellent word than this, nachküschen, which is to kiss in a kind of supplementary way or to complete a series of kisses?

I love that.

You know that last kiss?

You know, your kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, and then one more just for emphasis.

It’s the punctuation on the sentence, right?

We told you grammar was sexy.

That’s a German word, I take it.

Of course, nachküschen.

Very nice.

Love it.

Well, if you’d like to share something with us about language, give us a call.

1-877-929-9673.

Or send an email to words@waywordradio.org and seal it with a not-cusin.

You’re listening to A Way with Words.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

And we are joined now by our quiz guy, John Chaneski.

Hello, John.

Hi, Martha.

Hi, Grant.

How are you guys?

Hi, John.

What’s up, buddy?

I have a little puzzle here for you guys I think you’re going to like.

We had a lot of fun with limericks a while ago, so I thought I’d look at them some more.

You know, I have many, many, many, many books of limericks.

And two of them are clean.

So I’ve gathered some classic and not-so-classic limericks, and I’m going to see if you can guess the last word of the limericks from their context.

Okay?

Okay.

Great.

Now, one classic feature of many limericks is that the first line ends in a place name.

Now, this one is from Lewis Carroll.

There was a young man of Oporta who daily got shorter and shorter.

The reason, he said, was the hod on his head, which was filled with the heaviest…

Mortar.

Mortar.

Very good.

Oh, wow.

Excellent.

I’ve never been to Oporta.

I’ve never said hod on the radio.

I’ve never heard hod on the radio.

We’re just breaking ground here.

Here’s the next one.

This one’s by Haywood Brune, a Brooklyn-born journalist, quite famous.

He wrote the following.

There was a young man with a hernia who said to his doctor, Galdernia, when improving my middle, be sure you don’t fiddle with matters that do not…

Concernia.

Concernia, very good.

Yeah, he was one of the New Yorker crowd, wasn’t he?

Yes, he was.

That’s right.

Now, here’s an off-quoted limerick from Ogden Nash.

There was a young girl of old Natchez whose garments were always in patches.

When comment arose on the state of her clothes, she drawled,

When I itches, I…

I scratches.

I scratches.

Very good.

Nice.

This next one’s by an old friend of ours, Anonymous.

An accident really uncanny befell a respectable granny.

She sat down in a chair while her false teeth were there and bit herself right in the…

Well, whoever Anonymous was, he wasn’t a Brit.

Oh, he was a Brit, and this is not even what we thought.

She bit herself right in the fanny.

In the fanny, that’s right.

This one, I’ll just say it hits kind of close to home.

It’s by John Straley, and it goes like this.

There was a young fellow from Boise who at times was exceedingly noisy,

So his friend’s joy increased when he moved way back east to what people in Brooklyn call…

Joise.

Joise.

Very good.

This one’s by Harvey L. Carter, who was a professor of history at Colorado College.

There once was a co-ed named Clapper, in psychology class quite a napper, but her Freudian dreams were so classic, it seems, that now she’s a…

Something flapper?

No.

This is a multi-word, actually a multi-letter.

Wow.

I just need three letters, but they’re Greek.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right, there we go.

There you go.

A Phi Beta capper?

She’s a Phi Beta capper, that’s right.

Very nice.

Now, this next one’s dirty, but it’s only about as dirty as an episode of Match Game from 1975.

A very smart lady named Cookie said, I like to mix gambling with nookie.

Before every race, I go home to my place and curl up with a very good…

Bookie?

Bookie.

That is hot.

That’s really hot.

Right?

Yeah, it’s hot.

And you do a great Jean Rayburn, I’ve got to say.

Thank you.

He’s one of my favorites.

Okay, here’s another one.

This one’s sort of scientific.

There was a young woman named Bright whose speed was much faster than light.

She set out one day in a relative way and returned on the…

Previous night.

Previous night.

You know that one.

Okay.

Yeah, that’s an oldie.

I thought by asking for two words instead of one, it might screw you up a little bit.

But you got it.

All right, we’re going to do one more.

All right.

The limerick packs laughs anatomical in space that is quite economical.

But the good ones I’ve seen so seldom are clean, and the clean ones so seldom are comical.

Comical, right.

Very good.

You guys did great on that limerick quiz.

Thanks very much.

John, that was a lot of fun.

Thank you.

Thank you, John.

Let’s talk to you next time.

See you.

If you’d like to talk limericks or grammar or slang or punctuation or words and how we use them, the number to call is 1-877-929-9673.

Or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Yes, this is Robbie from Odessa, Texas.

Well, hi, Robbie. Welcome to the program.

Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Our pleasure. What can we do for you?

I have an expression that I have heard a lifelong friend of mine use ever since I’ve known her.

And the expression is, I feel more like I do now than I did a while ago, meaning usually like after a meal or something like that, you know, that you’re improved.

But I’ve never, ever heard that anywhere else.

I’ve never heard anyone else say this.

I’ve never read it anywhere.

I just think it’s an interesting phrase.

I love it.

I love it.

Give it to us one more time.

So you’ve just finished a great meal and you say, I feel more like I do now than I did a while ago.

I love that.

And how long has your friend been saying this?

Oh, well, I’ve known her for over 30 years, and she’s been saying it ever since I’ve known her.

Okay.

There we go.

I did ask her about it at one time, and she said she heard a family friend say that as a child, so she grew up hearing that, and it became a common expression in their family.

And it’s almost become like that in our family because it is so descriptive of many events.

Huh. You picked it up.

So when do you like to use it?

Well, usually after a great meal or when you get to your destination, if you’ve been on a trip or something like that, anything that expresses an improvement over the condition that you were in prior.

Oh, that’s like the apartments I used to drive past that had a sign that said, if you lived here, you’d be home now?

Oh, yes. Yes, I’ve seen that, too. It kind of makes you wish that you were there, doesn’t it?

Yeah, yeah. Great advertising.

The Buckaroo Bonsai quote, wherever you go, there you are.

Oh, yes. Yes, I’m familiar with that, too.

You know, Martha, I’ve done some digging on this in the past.

The earliest use I found of this is in 1952, and there’s almost always a story or a joke attached to it. Do you know it?

I don’t.

I’ll tell you the version that was in the Chicago Tribune in 1954.

And they say that a Washington senator told a story of the man who arrived at what he expected to be a boring dinner.

He fortified himself with a couple of stiff drinks, then two more, and finally another pair.

When he was called on at the dinner, the man arose gravely and announced, I feel more like I do now than I did when I came in.

So it’s a slightly different version, but it’s more or less the same thing.

Most of the times this story is told, it’s connected to somebody drinking.

That is interesting.

I’ve never heard the joke. I’ve never heard any reference to it.

And like I say, nor have I ever read anything that was similar.

But those accounts that you just told me, that is a very, very similar version.

Yeah, it’s interesting. So we know that this story is about 60 years old at least.

So it’s got a little bit of history. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s much older than that.

If I had some joke books from the 30s and 40s, I bet I’d find it in there.

A little vintage.

No, but none the worse for wear.

Well, that is very interesting.

I appreciate your help with that, and that really puts a little bit different spin on it for me.

Oh, but it’s a nice one.

Keep using that.

Yeah, I kind of like it.

I probably will.

It’s part of my regular language.

Yeah, I kind of like the idea of using it without the whole drinking thing involved.

I think it’s just funny in and of itself.

Well, I think it is, too, because not knowing that that’s how it was connected, you know, I’m not familiar with that part of it, but it is a very expressive phrase.

Oh, I love it.

It reminds me of people who stand up to give a speech and they say, before I begin speaking, I’d like to say something.

What? You’re already speaking, dude.

Let me have your attention before you doze off.

Exactly.

Well, Robbie, thank you so much for calling.

This is fun.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate the time.

Our pleasure.

Thank you, Robbie.

Okay.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Take care.

That’s great.

I had no idea about those stories.

That’s a winner.

That’s a winner.

If there’s a word or phrase that’s puzzling you, call us 1-877-929-9673 or email us.

That address is words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, we have A Way with Words.

Hi.

Hello.

This is Dan from San Diego.

Dan, hi, welcome.

Welcome, Dan.

Hi.

I have a question regarding, well, it’s with a group of friends, but we were trying to find out the male term for a mistress.

As in an S&M kind of mistress, or as in a little bit on the side kind of mistress?

Like a little bit on the side kind of mistress.

Someone who’s in a relationship with a married woman, where a mistress is a woman who’s in a relationship with a married man.

We’re trying to figure out exactly what the term would be for a man involved with a married woman.

Okay, now Daniel, there has to be a story here, right?

Yeah, it was with some friends that we get together occasionally and we were catching up, you know, out drinking and having dinner and we were catching up on our lives and things like that and what had happened over the last year.

And we started talking about our relationship, and this friend of mine began to talk about his new relationship, and I guess he’s not in a position for a relationship, or, you know, wasn’t really looking for anything really heavy, and found this other person, and she’s married, and, you know, I guess, you know, as far as discretion goes, I won’t go any farther than that.

So he said, well, I guess I’m her mistress.

And we were like, well, no, that would be a woman.

So what’s the guy?

What’s the term for a man?

Mister?

So we kept trying to figure it out.

And so it led to a lot of discussion.

And I sent everyone home to find out what to come back later with a term.

And that didn’t work.

So we decided to call you guys.

Oh, boy.

So what do you call a man who is having an affair with a married woman?

Yes.

And he’s not the one really in charge of the arrangement.

We’re looking at it from her perspective.

What would she call him, right?

Yes.

If she were to introduce him or whatever, what would the term be?

Yeah, it used to be master and mistress were kind of the opposite number of each other when it came to men and women, but then mistress developed this other meaning and master didn’t.

So master doesn’t work either.

He’s not really a rent boy because that just kind of makes out like he’s just one step below a prostitute, right?

Right.

And this isn’t for money specifically.

Right.

We thought about rent boy.

It’s just a little.

And things like that.

But there was always that money thing.

This is more just consensual.

Just sack.

Sack.

I suppose.

Right.

Fun in the sack and not really looking for a relationship or money.

Right.

Right.

Not a kept man.

Not looking for true love.

Right.

So not a kept man.

Right.

Right.

And he’s not a philanderer, really.

She is, though, right?

Right, because, you know, she’s the one that’s married.

Well, it’s because the women, except for the libertines, really haven’t had this position that the modern woman has.

This is relatively recent, right?

The development where women had this enough social capital to do this.

I’m not surprised that the language hasn’t kept up because it’s kind of new.

Probably the term that you’re looking for, though, is consort.

Even though it sounds incredibly old-fashioned.

Consort? Really?

Yeah.

Even if he’s not in it for the money and he’s not in it for whatever other favors beyond the sexual relationship, he is kind of a consort.

He’s the adjunct to her life.

She’s not the adjunct to his.

Exactly.

You know, I always try to make the case for the word lemon, L-E-M-A-N, which comes from words that mean dear person.

It’s a person beloved by one of the opposite sex.

But everybody says it sounds too much like the fruit.

Yeah.

When you first mentioned it, I was like, I don’t quite understand how that would work.

Yeah, I guess your friend wouldn’t want to say, here’s my lemon.

And cuckolder sounds too much like cup holder, so.

Yeah, and I think that would be a little old.

You’d have to really understand where that came from, too.

Again, it’s almost like Middle English.

Yeah, so you really want a real modern usable term for this.

Well, here’s something.

This is not quite right because it puts the sexual politics, the power of the sexual relationship in his hands rather than hers.

But in black English and in old blues songs and some old jazz tunes, there’s a term called the backdoor man.

And this is the fellow who leaves your house by the backdoor as you come in the front.

He’s been sleeping with your wife.

And so he is that, so to speak.

He is the backdoor man.

But again, it kind of puts him in the position of being the sexual aggressor, the one who’s the initiator of the relationship.

It sounds like you’re saying that she is.

She’s the one who kind of like, I don’t know.

Yeah, well, she’s the one that basically, I guess, dictates, you know, again, dictates that part of the relationship.

But I can give them both and we can decide which one works.

Well, let us know if you come up with something better, all right?

Okay.

Good luck.

Thank you so much, Dan.

Okay, bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

If you’ve got a question about what to call somebody, you dirty so-and-so, give us a call, 1-877-929-9673, or send it an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, Martha. My name is Laura, and I’m calling from San Diego.

Hello, Laura. Welcome.

Hi, Laura. Welcome to the program.

Hi, Grant. Thank you. I have a question about the appropriate ending for a certain plural word.

And I’m taking a class right now, and one of the speakers who deals with the subject of mental illness kept saying analysis as the plural of analysis and like psychosis.

And I always learned that word that ended in that IS form.

You drop the IS and you add an ES for the plural.

But because it’s been a long time since I’ve been in school, I thought perhaps the rules maybe were adjusting with the language and thought maybe you could help me with that.

So, Laura, you’re saying that this person said that the plural of analysis is…

Analysuses.

Analysuses?

Yes.

Analysuses?

Oh, please.

Like diagnoses and yes.

No.

They were serious, right? It wasn’t a joke?

Yeah, he was actually teaching a course.

Oh, my gosh.

Otherwise, he was very well-informed with the course.

It’s just that these certain words really grated out of my nerves, and I thought, well, maybe it’s changing, because the language always does change and evolve.

It’s true.

Or devolve.

Well, just to clarify, the reason that we’re giggling is that he’s wrong, and it’s kind of embarrassing to see somebody be so consistently wrong straight through, isn’t it?

A little bit, but it’s another situation where I believe also English is a second language.

That could make a difference.

Although his English is perfect otherwise.

Right.

Yeah, God forbid anyone should ever judge me speaking Spanish, my Spanish and my French.

So, yeah, lots of slack always needs to be cut for second learners of English because it’s a tough road to hoe.

Yeah, and you did understand what he meant.

You understood what he meant.

Oh, definitely.

But he is also wrong. And maybe the best service that you could do him is to take him out for coffee or something and make sure to find a way to bring it up.

I don’t think the anonymous note is the way to go here because people usually get really red-faced and embarrassed by that.

And then they think that they look around the room and wonder who’s judging them.

It’s got to be a face-to-face thing.

You might just do him a favor and say, hey, I just wanted to share this with you.

There’s a great show on the radio.

Yeah, here’s this segment you really should listen to.

Because you would be doing him a big favor, and I’m betting if he’s any kind of gentleman and professional that he’d be thankful.

Okay, yes, I will probably be seeing him again through these classes.

So I will definitely subtly let him know that there is this more preferred way of ending these words.

That’s a tough one.

That’s a tough order, isn’t it?

He’s your professor.

He’s your teacher.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.

If you have any kind of, if there’s any way you can, like, bring the level of the seriousness of the conversation down a couple notches, that’s why I suggested coffee before you bring it up.

Because if it’s one of those things where you’re encountering him after class, you know, as he’s getting his papers and we’re about to leave the room, that’s just really not going to work.

Maybe I’ll actually bring him coffee.

Oh, there we go.

Yeah, something like that.

Or the polished apple always works.

Oh, there we go.

Well, good luck with that, Laura.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Take care, Laura.

Thanks for calling.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

So to reiterate, analysis is pluralized as analyses.

Psychosis becomes psychoses.

Diagnosis becomes diagnoses.

And parenthesis becomes parenthesis.

But process does not become processes.

It doesn’t?

No.

Oh, processes.

Processes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think what’s going on here is that a lot of these words are coming into English via Latin and originally from Greek.

Right, and occasionally we’ll retain some of the features of the original language, but not often.

Exactly.

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You’re listening to A Way with Words. I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

How better to celebrate love and kissing than with one of my favorite passages.

Grant, this is from the Roman poet Catullus.

Yes, please.

And I’m not going to read the naughty parts, of which there are many, but there’s this lovely passage that when I think about love and kissing, it’s sort of inescapable.

He goes, give me a thousand kisses, then another hundred, then another thousand, then a second hundred, then yet another thousand more, then another hundred.

Then when we have made many thousands, we will mix them all up so that we don’t know.

And so that no one can be jealous of us when he finds out how many kisses we have shared.

Hot stuff, no?

Yeah, yeah.

Hot stuff.

Did you translate that from Latin yourself?

I wish I did.

You know, there are lots of different translations of this.

I found this one online by Rudy Neganborn, and I really like it compared to some of the other ones.

It’s also really sexy in Spanish, but I’ll spare you my Spanish.

Fantastic stuff.

I’ve got one of my own.

This is a little different.

It’s a fellow by the name of Charles Dekay, who was lowercase d-e space capital k-a-y.

Oh, okay. I was wondering.

He was a literary and art critic for the New York Times in the 1870s, and he wrote a collection of poems pretending to be a poet by the name of Louis Barnaval, B-A-R-N-A-V-A-L.

And in these, through a series of verses, he talks about somebody, his loved one, being kind of a guiding light to him or like a shining influence.

And I’ve chosen one particular part that struck me.

And it goes like this.

Lamp of my path and beacon to my footsteps faint.

Guide in the dark refreshments to endeavor this love for you strange byways half untrod by saint yet most delicious and of heavenly savor the graver’s subtle tool must fail to cut.

And penman fairly right the hidden ways whereby I used your light and so in that in that passage.

He’s he’s kind of talking about even in the subtlest ways. I mean you could obviously compare somebody to the son, but even in the subtlest ways, this person, through their love, has influenced him and made him basically a better person.

Yeah, lit his path.

That’s lovely.

Well, we’d love to hear from you about your favorite verse. Give us a call, 1-877-929-9673, or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Good morning.

Good morning, who is this?

Leslie, and I’m calling you from Rancho Bernardo, and I have a question to ask you. It’s been bothering me for years, and you’re finally going to be the one to solve this for me.

My question is, could you please tell me the difference between a second cousin and a cousin once removed?

Well, if you want to, you can marry either one.

No.

I’m glad to know that.

Oh, really?

At age 78, I’m real concerned about that.

Well, I’m glad we can help.

You helped me already.

About 11 years ago, we made our first trip to Switzerland, and I met my wonderful cousin, who is an attorney in Bern, and Pierre’s grandfather and my grandmother were brother and sister in Switzerland.

Brother and sister.

Brother and sister.

So we assumed his grandfather’s children and my grandmother’s children would be first cousins, making us the second generation, and therefore we would be second cousins.

But he thought, no, Ellie, I don’t think so. I think we’re cousins once removed.

And therein the question has been plaguing me because I thought second cousins would be of the same generation.

You’re right that the once removed has to do with different generations. I can tell you that one.

And you are right as well that you are second cousins with this fellow, Pierre. Because you are… Are you’re both the child of the other’s parents’ first cousin.

Yes, exactly.

So that’s it.

Oh, I need a PowerPoint.

It helps if you make the tree. Just make the family tree, put the people at the top of it, draw the lines, show the parents, show the children, show the grandchildren, and then start numbering.

Go zero for the top generation, one for the next generation, two for the next generation, and then you have your numbers right next to the first cousins and the second cousins.

And then the ones removed is when you move one further step down the chain from where you are.

That’s true.

You’re on different levels.

So that the genealogy chart would make an arrow downward to another generation.

That’s what I’ve been thinking.

Oh, you make me so happy.

He has a way of doing that.

You’re right on top of it there.

Finally get this clarified.

All right.

I thank you so very, very much.

Well, it’s our pleasure.

Thank you for calling us today.

All right.

I’m going to put in a long-distance call to Pierre.

No, it costs too much.

I’m going to email him. Tell him I was right.

How about that?

Yeah.

Yeah, share it with the world.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

Okay, take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Yeah, Grant, the way that I’ve understood it is to think about the grandparents. So your first cousins are the people who share your grandparents. Your second cousins are the people who have the same great-grandparents as you, but not the same grandparents.

And all the way down the line to the third and the fourth, right?

Yeah.

To me, that’s an easier way to remember it.

The once removed throws people because they forget that they need to leap one generation further down the chain.

And that’s when you get the remove, right?

Right.

That you and that other person are in different generations.

That’s right.

Although what’s also confusing about it is that your first cousin once removed is either a child of one’s first cousin or it’s one’s parent’s first cousin.

Right.

So there’s a reciprocation there that also confuses people.

Right.

I see on genealogy.com there’s a really good chart for this.

We should link to this on waywordradio.org.

Oh, beautiful.

We’ll do that.

But, you know, this is all easily solved. It’s been solved in southern English for generations.

Yeah.

You just call everybody cuz and you’re done.

You don’t need to go worry about the removes and stuff.

Everybody’s just cuz.

If you’re not really quite sure and they’re at your family union, then they’re cuz.

That’s a good idea.

Just use the generic.

Yeah.

1-877-929-9673 and send your problems and theories to words@waywordradio.org.

Martha.

Yes, sir.

What did the girl volcano say to the boy volcano?

I lava you?

Yes!

You have to say it in an Italian accent.

Do you lava me like I lava you?

Oh, my goodness.

Your questions about slang, language, grammar, usage, pronunciation, and so forth to words@waywordradio.org or 1-877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hello, how are you?

This is Tom from Ocracoke, North Carolina.

Well, hello, Tom. Welcome to the program.

Thank you.

Oh, boy.

Are you a native to Ocracoke?

No. I moved here about five years ago. I’m not even really a native from where I moved from, which was Connecticut, but that’s where I’d lived for quite a while before I moved to Ocracoke.

Oh, Tom, I love Ocracoke. I went on vacation there one year. It got really sunburned.

You can do that there.

Ocracoke is a beautiful place. It’s a part of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

Right.

But for me, Ocracoke has an interest because it’s one of the most studied language communities in North America. And I know some of the people who’ve done some of the research, Walt Wolfram and his gang at North Carolina State. He’s been on the island doing research for quite a long time.

And that’s not what I’m calling about, but it happens coincidentally that Ocracoke is a place of interest to people who study words. We could do a whole program about that. You can’t live there and not become aware of the work that’s gone on and just aware of that accent and that culture.

It’s a really strong storytelling culture, so there’s a lot of talking that goes on, and you hear it all the time.

But I do have a question.

Okay, shoot, yeah.

Unrelated to Oprah Koch, and that is, what do you know about the origin of the expression, knock on wood?

My wife and I were driving to Richmond from Ocracoke, and we drove by a spot on the highway where the last time we went to Richmond, our car broke down. And my wife said, that’s where we broke down. And I said, knock on wood, you know, we’re past that.

And I think that’s how it’s used to sort of try to push away some potential bad luck.

Yeah, and you probably didn’t even have any wood to knock on unless you had one of those station wagons with the wood on the side.

I knocked on vinyl, I think.

Knocked on vinyl.

Oh, boy.

Well, this one is an etymological puzzle, I’m sorry to say. I’m not sure we have a good answer about why knock on wood. There have been all kinds of theories about maybe it goes back to pre-Christian times and druids knocking on trees to alert the gods within. Or back to Ireland when people would knock on the trees to let the little people know that they needed some help with something.

The truth is that we don’t know. And what’s really odd to me, Grant, about this is that this expression seems, every time you hear about it, the explanations go way, way back. But we don’t see this expression until, what, the late 19th century?

Yeah.

In English, it’s odd. You would think it would be back in the 1500s or something.

Well, there are a few variants as well. There’s also, in Britain, they’re more likely to say touchwood.

Yeah, yeah.

In parts of the American South, they might say peck on wood instead of knock on wood.

I use it myself, even though I’m also not superstitious.

Tom, it sounded like you said it when you were driving toward Richmond, but you didn’t actually knock on wood, right? You only said the words.

I think that saying the words is good enough, but I did accompany it with the actual motion, even though I didn’t have wood to knock on.

Knocked on vinyl.

And I also noticed that sometimes in casual conversation, people will use it and not even say the words knock on wood, but just continue with the conversation, but reach over and knock on some wood. right

I think any amount of that, I mean, you know, whatever it takes to bring a little bit of good luck.

Yeah, it usually works, right?

So far, it’s worked.

I mean, that’s the important thing.

You guys didn’t break down.

And yeah, it’s a real mystery.

We get that question from time to time.

And we just don’t have a good answer.

Is it used in other parts of the world?

Yes.

Yeah.

You see it in Spanish.

It’s touch wood or strike wood, the translation.

So it’s a mystery.

Well, that’s an answer of a sort.

Well, thank you.

I didn’t call up hoping that I would stump the chumps, but thank you for trying to answer my question.

I appreciate it.

Okay.

Take care.

All right.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

We’ll link to some information about the dialect of Ocracoke, North Carolina.

It’s really interesting stuff.

Oh, yeah.

I’m all tingly.

I know there’s video and audio out there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good summaries, too, if you don’t want to get too far into it.

Yeah, it was great to talk to somebody who was transplanted there and is observing it all around him.

The hairs on my neck are standing up.

Well, if you want to try to stump the chumps, you probably will.

Call us 1-877-929-9673 or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

You know, Grant, earlier in the show we were talking with Robbie about the expression, I feel more like I do now than I did before.

Mm—

I have a couple more of those that I really like.

That kind of self-referential humor.

How about, here, take this placebo.

I like that.

And how about this one?

The two rules for success are, one, never tell them everything you know.

That’s it.

Well, share your silly humor with us, 1-877-929-9673, or send an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Hello, this is Chuck Johnson.

Hi, Chuck.

Welcome to the program.

Thank you very much.

And where are you calling from?

Helena, Montana.

Great.

Well, what’s up?

Well, I was going to ask about the word I’ve heard around here called scissor bill.

Scissor bill.

Well, that sounds like a plan to bring down your credit card amount.

It’ll work that way, won’t it?

Cut your bills in half.

No, but I guess that’s not it, huh?

What is a scissor bill?

The way I’ve heard it used is it’s someone who’s sort of loafing on the job or lollygagging is another word we use up here too.

But maybe once the boss has got his back turned, loafs a little bit on the job.

Have you ever heard of scissorbill in reference to hogs?

No, I haven’t. What’s that?

Well, the story goes that wild hogs are so mean and so vicious that they had a razorback and a scissorbill, and they’d chew on you just out of meanness.

Oh, my gosh.

And so razorback and scissorbill are both old terms for wild hogs.

I have a new nickname for Grant. This is great.

But you’ve probably heard of the bird as well.

There’s a kind of, I believe it’s a seashore turn of some sort, also known as a shear water, called a scissor bill.

Have you ever heard of those?

Maybe they don’t come out that far.

I have heard of them, and they just skim the top of the water when they fly in.

That’s what I’ve heard anyway.

Well, I’ll tell you, the history of scissor bill, as you’ve used it, it’s interesting.

There’s a long one there.

It goes back more than 100 years.

And there’s a great book called Calf’s Head and Union Tail, Labor Yarns at Work and Play.

And this is by Archie Green.

And what he talks about in this book is just the history of some of the legends and stories that have to do with labor movement and labor unions and organizing that kind of stuff.

And Sisybill figures very largely in here.

It started out in American English as a reference to people who were either like the bird a scissor bill or who were like the hog a scissor bill.

And I believe it’s mostly the hog.

It’s that whole idea that this is a hog had a mouth that was very sharp.

Have you ever seen the teeth on a hog?

Sometimes they’re very yellow and sharp and vicious.

I hope never to see one.

Supposedly, they look a little bit like the bill of a scissorbill, the bird, which is interesting because the lower part of the beak is much longer than the upper part, and I think this allows them to get into muscles and other kinds of shellfish like that.

In any case, so people called these old farmers who were rough and tough like a wild hog a scissorbill, just like the hog.

So it’s a pretty matter-of-fact way.

We often call people by the names of animals to indicate this person is somehow like the animal.

But somewhere along the way, it came to be used by the labor unions to refer to people who were pro-boss and anti-labor or maybe were just the kind of heads down workers who didn’t want to get involved in no movement.

They just wanted to do their work and go home and get the paycheck and not really try to fight for the rights of anybody else, kind of selfish.

And somewhere along the way, it also became generalized to mean any kind of know-nothing or no-account person.

And as you kind of described it, it could be somebody who’s lazy or somebody who doesn’t really work beyond just enough to pay for a bed and board.

Now, this is a really short, condensed story of what Archie Green has to say at length in his book.

There’s a ton of data out there, a variety of different ways that this term has been used.

But generally, it’s about somebody who is bad at what they do or doesn’t do anything.

Oh, that’s very interesting.

Yeah, fascinating.

I’d never heard it.

I have to tell you, Chuck.

I’d never heard it.

So this is really cool.

That’s great.

I sure appreciate learning more about it.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for calling.

Chuck, we’ll link to Archie Green’s book on our website.

Wonderful.

Well, thanks so much.

Thank you.

It’s been fun talking to you both.

Okay.

Thank you.

Bye.

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Things have come to a pretty pass.

Our romance is growing flat.

That’s our show for this week.

If you didn’t get on the air today, you can leave us a message anytime.

That number, 1-877-929-9673.

Or email us. The address is words@waywordradio.org.

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Stefanie Levine is our senior producer.

Our technical director and editor is Tim Felten.

We’ve had production help this week from Josette Hurdell and Jennifer Powell.

From Studio West in San Diego, I’m Martha Barnette.

And from San Francisco, I’m Grant Barrett.

Thanks to Howard Gelman for engineering our show from the studios of KQED Radio.

Peace out.

Bye-bye.