Third Person Singular, Unknown Gender

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Yeah, hi, Grant and Martha. My name is Nathaniel, and I’m calling from the great state of Vermont.

Hi, Nathaniel.

Hiya.

Great state indeed. What can we do for you?

Well, I’ve got a question I’m hoping you can give me a little info about. It’s really a grammar question. It’s regarding the use of they or their in place of his or hers in a sentence.

So, for example, someone might say, everyone should do their own work on this project. And this is this kind of sounds to me pretty to be pretty acceptable. I mean, that’s what I would put in most sentences is what I’d say. It’s what I’d usually write, and I’m 23 now, but for most of my life I’ve kind of been told that that’s, you know, to shy away from that or to that it’s not really correct necessarily that I should use his or hers or his or hers in that place.

And it’s kind of bugged me, honestly, because it just doesn’t seem to flow in my mind, I think. I guess my question is, am I committing some sort of, you know, atrocity, grammar atrocity here when I do this? Or is it acceptable? Is it changing?

Who is telling you that it’s wrong?

I’d heard it from teachers in high school, just to use he or she in place of that. And then I’ve heard like some people say, oh, well, you know, to use him as even if you don’t know the gender is that sexist, you know, use hers instead or that kind of thing. And that’s that’s kind of bugged me as well, because that’s not solving any problems as far as I’m concerned.

Yeah, it’s not solving any problems. I would agree with the sexist part, though. I think that if you’re going to going to default to him and people have said that, you know, it doesn’t matter because it’s generic. Him is generic and he is generic. If it’s generic, then let’s make it she and her. If it doesn’t matter, let’s do that.

But, Nathaniel, I think you’re right. I think you’re absolutely right. And I think Grant and I are on the same page here. In fact, for hundreds of years, people were using they and them as what we call an epicene pronoun, which is a pronoun without gender. And for the singular, right? I mean, all the way back to Chaucer’s time. And then along in the 18th century, some grammarians decided that, no, no, no, we’ve got to do it this other way. We’ve got to make it singular so that it agrees. But that’s only been for a couple hundred years. There’s a much longer history of using they and them.

Yeah. And the argument of these grammarians in the 1800s was basically that it was illogical. They misapplied logic that they borrowed from other languages like Latin and said, well, English should behave like Latin, which is just patently ridiculous. And you will find no professional grammarian or linguist who disagrees with the opinion that you have and that we have. None.

Very good. And I say that just knowing I’m going to get somebody’s email going, well, actually.

I know. I was taught to use me and him. Just to kind of anticipate an argument. Some people go, well, them and their are plural. What about you? Y-O-U. Y-O-U is both singular and plural. And them and their follow a very similar pattern.

Well, that’s why we have y’all. And there are going to be times when you do want to use him or her or his.

Yes. You know, I mean, every person should decide for himself what to do before hysterectomy. You know, that’s not going to work. Well, we know the gender. We know that it’s always she or her.

Yeah. For me, it’s always been a matter of just what sounds right, you know, in a lot of ways. Because I think using him and her sometimes, if you’re forcing it in there, it doesn’t necessarily seem to want to go there. It would sound awkward.

We should say that it is really difficult to shake these particular old traditions and to remove this idea that his slash her is the ideal way to use these pronouns.

Tell me about it. I had to get over it. It is going to take probably another generation or two before people come around to it.

Really? You think that wrong?

Really, I really do. Because there is no safety in pushing this point of view in a group of people who don’t agree with you. And so people who write textbooks and people who teach grade schoolers, they’re going to go for the very conservative, very safe route, which is to follow the very loud people who actually happen to be wrong.

But I think the safe route is to use they and them. They and them are totally fine. And I just know that we’re going to get email and calls about this. Bring them on. We welcome them.

Yeah, I would have called 20 years ago to say that.

What changed your mind?

I think just running into the same kinds of problems, Nathaniel, that you’re running into. And then getting permission from more and more, quote-unquote, authorities in the field.

Cool.

And I’ve heard people side with me on this in a lot of ways. I don’t want to say that everybody’s always been on the opposite side. But I have had people on the opposite side, especially, you know, back in high school and being, you know, in teachers and marking me off for doing it. And I’m like, no.

Nathaniel, if somebody does that to you, send them to us.

Very good. I will do that.

Or him or her.

Thanks for calling, Nathaniel.

Thank you so much. I love your show.

Take care.

Thanks. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

If you’ve got a question about language, something that’s just been bugging you, send it to us, words@waywordradio.org, or call us 877-929-9673.