Bronx Cheer (episode #1632)

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

Donald R. Clymer from Harrisonburg, Virginia, tells us that he was with a group of fellow language professors when one of them used the term horse and goggle. He’d never heard of this expression before, but he was told that horse and goggle is a way of selecting a recipient of something. And he was wondering what that’s all about.

And Grant, have you ever played horse and goggle?

No, but it’s a counting out, Ryan, basically to decide who gets chosen.

Exactly.

Say you have a bunch of kids at the table and there’s leftover dessert or maybe a slice of pizza. Then you horse and goggle it. Basically, you all form a circle and the leader of the group says, one, two, three, horse and goggle. And on the word horse and goggle, everybody holds up a certain number of fingers, like whatever you choose. And you have to keep holding them up, and then you count the number of fingers being held up. Then from a previously designated person in the circle, you start counting off, going around, and the person in the spot that corresponds to the total number of fingers is the winner.

And the word horsengoggle, we don’t know the origin of that, but there might be some German influence there because a lot of people around the country play Eins, zwei, drei horsengoggle.

Yes. And there are a wide number of counting rhymes in German, just as there are in English. So maybe a misinterpretation of a German word or just a fake German word to sound funny?

That’s what I would guess.

Speaking of digits, call our digits, 1-877-929-9673, or find more ways to reach us on our website and all of our past episodes at waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, my name is Byron Navy. I’m calling from Florence, South Carolina. And I had a question. Growing up, I routinely heard my grandmother say this phrase, might as well can’t dance. And I thought it was just peculiar to her. You know, it’s like a rhetorical thing. Like someone would say something obvious like, oh, it’s time to go to bed. And someone would say, might as well can’t dance, that sort of thing. And I thought it was peculiar to her until I got out of the military and moved to South Carolina, met my wife, said it in front of her. And she says, my dad used to say that. And he’s from down east South Carolina. So, I mean, even though it’s only maybe five or six hours from where my grandmother grew up, it’s years away. And, you know, culturally, you know. And I thought, well, what in the world, man? Where is this coming from? And I’m hoping, I wanted to know for years if there was anything to this expression. And I’m dying to know what you guys have to say.

We have plenty to say. I love your enthusiasm. And I also like the way you pronounced can’t, can’t dance.

Well, see, I think that’s part of the phrase. I think you have to say it that way.

Well, at least one part of the country does.

Right, that’s right. Yeah, Brian, this is an expression that is fairly widespread, that might as well can’t dance. And there’s even a longer version of it that goes, can’t dance, never could sing, and it’s too wet to plow.

Well, I’m just going to have to incorporate that now.

Yeah, I think you will. I mean, and there’s actually an even longer version of this that goes, can’t dance, it’s too wet to plow, too dry to stack hay, too windy to pick rocks. And anyway, granny’s got the motorcycle.

That’s great. Well, all the more apropos being that my grandmother is the one that I learned it from. So that’s great.

So she’s got the motorcycle.

That’s right. Well, can I ask you a question about that?

Sure.

Yeah. Is it regional?

I would say it’s probably associated with the South. What would you say, Grant?

Yeah, I would agree with that. It typically comes up in informal collections of Southern sayings. But I wouldn’t put money on that because sometimes Southern sayings in these kinds of informal dictionaries really are just rural sayings where they’ve hung on to old modes of speech a little longer than the urban areas.

Right. And that’s a really good point because that key part is can’t dance, never could sing, and it’s too wet to plow. You know, that’s an echo of a time when work was so much more dependent on the weather than it is now. You know, for farmers, if it’s wet, you can’t plow that wet field. It’s just too much work and it forms a mess. So, yeah, it’s a homespun phrase that, you know, probably had some roots in, so to speak, in agriculture. A farmer suddenly finds himself with extra time because it’s raining. So they might as well do whatever you’re suggesting. And then they come out with this phrase, you know, because they’re putting the plan plowing off for another time.

I mentioned the South, but now that I think about it, I once saw an article in a small town paper in New York State. And it was one of those sweet stories about a couple that’s been married for 60 years and, you know, the secrets of how they stayed married all that time. But I remember that it describes the husband years ago popping the question and his wife-to-be said something like, why not? Can’t dance too wet to plow.

I guess so. You’re the only one going. Might as well. Got nothing else to do.

It reminds me of the synonym, which is, yep, I could sit still for that.

That is awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. That is great information. My family’s going to love hearing that.

All right. Well, Byron, thank you so much for your call. Take care of yourself.

Oh, thank you. I’m so excited to talk to you guys. I’ve listened to you for years. I love it. Thank you so much.

Oh, great. Call us again sometime.

Will do. Will do. Thank you.

We got a voicemail from Sherry in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. She was responding to a conversation that we had with somebody who was looking for a word for nieces and nephews.

Grant, I’ve always liked niefling.

Yeah, and another common one is nibblings, which is, of course, because you want to nibble their little toeses.

Right. Well, Sherry left us a message saying, I thought kindling was a good word. And I really like that. You know, it’s like, you know, you think of the German word kind for child and kindling, you know, the beginning of a little life there. My kindlings.

No, you know, because of the fire notions there. We can’t do that. Embers and flame.

I think of them as glowing little warm embers.

Oh, that’s nice. Why did I go straight to the dark place and you went to the light place?

Join us in the light place on social media. Find all the ways to reach us on our website at waywordradio.org.

Hello. You have A Way with Words.

Hi, my name is Joan Getzfried, and I’m calling from Valley, Nebraska. And I’m calling about a dish that has been served in my family for generations, and it is called hot tamales. Now, my grandma made it, my dad’s grandma made it, and as it turns out, these are not tamales. We’re Germans from Russia, and these are actually cabbage rolls. They’re hamburger, bacon, and rice cooked and wrapped in a leaf of cabbage and then baked in tomato juice. And the reason I’m calling is I cannot find anyone in my family who knows why are they called hot tamales. And my dad and them are around from Albion, Nebraska in Boone County. I was wondering, have you ever heard of such a thing?

So what we’re talking about here is a food dish that is called the same thing as the Latin American tamale, but is not much like it.

Not at all.

Well, it is a little bit. Because the Latin American tamale, which, by the way, is probably originally from Mesoamerica, this is contents, including meats and vegetables and other things, wrapped in corn husks or banana or plantain leaves. Just like the dish your grandmother’s made is also wrapped in leaves. It’s just cabbage leaves and not plantain or banana or corn husk. And so the concept is generally still there about using a plant to hold all these fillings.

And then are they steamed or baked or how are they cooked?

They’re baked.

Now you soften the cabbage ahead of time by steaming it.

And then you cook the meat and rice ahead of time.

And then you roll the meat and rice into the softened cabbage leaf.

And then you put all the tamales in a baking pan and bake it in tomato juice for two hours.

Yeah, and the tomato sauce is also another one of those things that’s like the dish vaguely echoes tamales from the Latin American world, but it’s kind of distant from it.

And so there’s this thing that happened with tamales and some other Mexican food where people heard of them in the history of tamales in the English-speaking world, but before they encountered them.

So they had them described to them or saw recipes, but didn’t know exactly what they were.

And so people have done their own versions.

It’s been a long time, but at one point we talked about tamales or hot tamales in Sheboygan, Wisconsin and thereabouts, which are basically Sloppy Joe’s sandwiches.

And it’s the same idea.

It’s a little bit of spice, you know, about as much spice as a Midwesterner can take typically.

A little bit of spicy meat on a bun.

And so again and again, you’ll see this where food is not the original.

It’s people’s own modifications.

Oh, -huh.

So I think that’s what’s happened here.

So, I mean, if you were to generally describe the dish your grandmother’s made, it’s fillings wrapped in a leaf.

If we were to generally describe Latin American tamales, it’s fillings wrapped in a leaf or a husk.

Okay.

And the red sauce with the tomatoes is kind of a thing that’s also common in those Central American dishes.

Okay, so you believe Central America influenced the phrase of our Germans from Russia.

Yep.

Okay.

You’ve got to know that tamales have been known in the English-speaking world for almost 200 years.

Okay.

So it’s not that new.

Okay.

I kind of thought they might have brought it from over there.

Well, I suspect they brought the dish, but then it took a new name.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, probably a different name to start out with.

It’s not all that uncommon for a kind of plainer fare, you know, ordinary fare, to take on a new name if someone just wants to make it seem something special or new or significant.

Okay. Okay.

Well, that’s interesting.

I grew up with them, and then when I found out what real tamales are, I was quite confused.

Well, now you have two very delicious things that are called tamales that you can eat.

Okay.

Right?

Right.

And I use the same recipe my great-grandmother used.

Your great-grandmother, even further back than I was thinking.

That’s very cool.

Well, I hope we helped a little bit here, Joan.

Thank you so much for your call.

All right.

Yeah, it helped.

Thank you for answering my question.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

I’m always charmed by a good simile, and I found this one in a 1589 work called Menaphon.

It’s by Robert Greene, and it’s kind of a pastoral romance.

And in it, he says, thy breath is like the steam of apple pies.

Oh, boy.

If that was the compliment you gave me on a first date, I would probably end up being married.

That’s a really great compliment.

Isn’t it nice?

It is very nice.

But the steam of apple pie.

The steam, yeah.

Breathe it in.

Your thoughts are like the steam of apple pies.

Listeners, give us your thoughts, 877-929-9673.

Or tell us the whole sordid story.

words@waywordradio.org.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

And what to our wondering eyes should appear but a very tall man who is full of good cheer.

It’s John Chaneski, our quiz guy.

Hi, John.

Thank you.

Hi.

If you’ll excuse me, I was going to climb off this reindeer, which happened to be wandering past.

And let’s get to the quiz.

Hi, guys.

I recently had the pleasure of being a guest on the Bewilderingly podcast, where a bunch of crossword pros gather and solve cryptic crosswords live.

Is it fun to watch someone solve a puzzle?

Yes, it is.

Yes, it is.

It’s very fun.

I was wondering.

That was the question.

No, it is.

It’s fun.

I’m listening.

Sure.

Well, that’s what people are doing here.

That’s right.

It inspired me to turn my attention to one of the main clue types in a cryptic crossword.

-oh.

This one is, now we’ve done these before.

You guys are pros by now.

The double definition.

Now, double definitions are typically easy to spot because they seem way too short to be an anagram or charade or a sound clue.

Sometimes they’re only two words.

So double definitions are exactly what they sound like.

Two different definitions of the same word.

For example, if the clue was pale-colored lamp, that would clue the word light, as light means both pale-colored and lamp.

Okay?

Okay, very good.

Yeah.

Now, cryptic clues typically give the number of letters or enumeration of the answer in parentheses, but all of these answers are four letters long.

Good?

Just to make it simple for you guys.

Okay.

Here we go.

I’m going to give you a double-definition clue, and the answer will be four letters long.

The first one is sad feathers.

Down.

Down, yes.

I’m feeling down.

I’m feeling sad.

And feathers are kind of down or down is a kind of feathers.

How about this one?

Skinny incline.

I was going to say ramp.

They are lean.

Yes.

Lean.

Very good.

All right.

How about this?

Fall journey.

Fall journey.

Fall journey.

Another one of those places where…

Yep.

Four letters.

Journey is trip.

Yes, trip.

Oh, good one.

Yeah, fall as in trip and journey as in trip.

Very good.

Okay, some of these, by the way, are more than two words, and that’s fine, too.

Let’s try this one.

Healthy water source.

Well?

Well.

Oh.

Well.

Well, well.

What?

That is great.

Yes.

Well as in water source and well as in healthy.

Very good.

Let’s try this one.

Exactly equitable.

Exactly equitable.

So fair doesn’t seem right.

Just?

Just.

Oh, good.

Just is correct.

Yes.

Exactly as in just.

Exactly what I need.

And equitable as in just as in justice.

Very good.

Call for a squire.

Call for a squire.

A squire.

Page.

Yes, page is correct.

Oh, nice, nice.

Call for and a squire is a page.

Here’s the last one.

This is comparatively a war and peace.

Stare at a member of the House of Lords.

Is this S-T-A-R-E?

Yes, it is.

Peer.

Peer is correct.

To peer, to look at, and a member of the House of Lords is a peer.

What were you going to say, Martha?

I was going to say gays, but I don’t know how many there are.

Okay, you never know.

We’ll have to take a poll and find out.

But no, it is indeed, that would be a phonetic, of course, but this is a peer, P-E-E-R, peer, to stare, and a member of the House of Lords is a peer.

Thank you for sharing stuff from your bag of toys with us, John.

We really appreciate it.

Thank you, guys.

My pleasure.

I’ll see you next time.

Thanks, John.

Bye-bye.

We do like crossword puzzles here, and we like the puzzles that you pose for us.

If you’ve got a linguistic question or challenge that you’d like to see us tackle, the phone number is 877-929-9673, or email words@waywordradio.org, and find all of our episodes and lots more ways to reach us on our website at waywordradio.org.

Hello.

You have A Way with Words.

Hi.

This is Louis Provencher, and I’m calling from Reno, Nevada.

Hi, Louis.

Welcome.

What’s up?

Well, thanks for taking my call.

So I’m French-Canadian.

I’m actually from Montreal.

My first language is French.

My second language, or I should say Quebecois French, and my second language is obviously English.

An expression my father said that we thought was comical, but I’m going to say it in French, and then I’m going to translate to English.

And he would say, J’aime vacher le matin, puis je prends mon temps.

Which means, I like to vacher.

And I’ll explain that.

I like to vacher and take my time in the morning after I get up, basically.

And we looked at him and we said, vacher.

And he said, yeah.

I said, that’s not a verb.

And he says, well, it is for me.

And vacher comes from vache.

And vache in French is a cow. And what he meant was that after he wakes up in the morning, he likes to be lazy in bed and just fall in and out of sleep, take his time, not come up. But he’s taking his sweet time getting up. And, you know, the sun is shining through the room or something like that. And so this is in up there in Quebec and near Montreal. And we always wondered if there was an expression.

First, he explained to us vacher, but then we want to know, is there an expression that’s similar in English?

Louis, I got to say that there’s so many different ways to go with this. First, yes, vacher, V-A-C-H-E-R, does come from the French word for cow. And it has to do with this idea of cows being seen as lazy or idle most of the time.

There’s another expression in French. I don’t know if it’s in Québécois French, but it’s in hexagonal French, as they say, European French. Je voulais un vache qui regardait passer un train. To look like a cow staring at a passing train. So the cow is just standing there, like, cheering its cud, looking very idle otherwise.

Yes, it’s a little bit like bovine bliss. Bovine bliss, yeah. Chewing their cud in a field and all that, yes.

Yeah, and so the thing about vache, V-A-C-H-E-R, is that it is a Quebecoisism. It’s something in Quebecois French that is not in other dialects of French. And so you have to go to the dictionaries of Quebecois language in order to find it.

So there’s a really good one called Dictionnaire Quebecois d’Aujourd’hui, the Dictionnaire of Today’s Quebecois French, by Jean-Claude Boulanger and Alain Rey from 1992. If you can find it, buy it. It’s very good. You know, even though it’s several decades old, it’s still going to be very good.

And I just love this idea that we use the cow to represent. The English equivalent is to loaf, L-O-A-F, or to loaf around.

Oh.

Yeah.

Because loaf has that same kind of slangy, informal tone to it, I think vache does in Quebecois French.

Oh, that’s good.

Well, we will be happy, my wife and I will be happy to know that and be able to use it.

Yeah, there’s another one in Quebecois French, which is chienner, which means to dog it, to be lazy like a dog. C-H-I-E-N-N-E-R. But I don’t know if that’s as current as vaché.

It’s probably not that vaché. It’s very current because I have not known many people using it. There’s a lot of expressions in Quebec also about maritime life because it was all centered. The commerce was centered on the St. Lawrence Seaway. And so the travel was all done by boat and all that.

So a lot of our expressions are related to marine equipment or activities or things like that. That makes so much sense to me. And let’s not even get into Quebecois swearing, which we can’t talk about on the show, which is its own wonderful thing.

Oh, that was my life when I was young.

Louis, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. And I’m glad that we were able to offer you some reassurance that it’s a real thing. And your dad knows what he’s talking about, and you should never challenge him.

Good.

Good.

Spoken like a real dad, Grant.

Yes, exactly.

Louis, thanks for calling.

Oh, you’re very welcome.

You’re very welcome. This is a pleasure to know this. And we listen always to your show.

Thank you.

Be well.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

No matter where you are in the world, you can reach us. Go to our website and you’ll find our WhatsApp number and contact forms. That’s waywordradio.org contact.

And if you’re in the U.S. or Canada, you can call us toll-free, 877-929-9673.

We are still receiving pangrams from listeners. Those are sentences that have every single letter of the alphabet, and ideally they’re short and make sense. We got one from Linda Gould who said she was tidying up when she came up with this one.

Quickly vacuuming six juicy blobs of Cheez Whiz is definitely a very messy proposition. Cheez Whiz. There are Zs. Cheez Whiz. Can you use proper nouns in these? I guess so.

Oh, sure. Yeah, I think so. What I want to know is what was she tidying up? And can you vacuum Cheez Whiz? Isn’t that gooey?

I think this pangram raises more questions than it answers. There needs to be a committee, and you can join that committee by calling us at 877-929-9673 or join our language committee on our website at waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, how are y’all today?

We’re doing fine. How are you and who are you?

I am Leslie, and I’m calling from Millbrook, Alabama, right outside of Montgomery.

Gotcha. Welcome to the show, Leslie.

Hey, Leslie, what’s on your mind today?

Well, y’all, I have a precious 99-year-old mother. She’ll be 100 next month. And she has an expression that she frequently says. I can tell by her usage that it means she’s happy or content or doesn’t want anyone to fuss over her. But I wondered if you could find the origin of the expression.

Her expression is, I’m Pearl at the picnic.

So she’s out and about and something goes her way and she says, I’m Pearl at the picnic?

Yes, yes. Or, you know, we’re like, oh, let me, you know, let me help you with this or let me do this or you need this. And she’s like, no, no, no, I’m Pearl at the picnic. You know, to her it means I’m just fine. Don’t worry about a thing. I’m as happy as a lark.

-huh.

Oh, boy.

Yes, it’s a very happy expression, you know, and we get the signal. Like everything’s A-okay.

Right. And did she ever talk to you about why she might say that expression or who Pearl is?

No, no. I wonder. She’s from New Orleans. I wondered if maybe you found a pearl in your oyster on a picnic or something. She has no idea its origin.

Well, this is so interesting, Leslie, because I haven’t seen that many references to this phrase, but I have seen it a few times. And the pearl is always capitalized. So I think it’s fair to assume that Pearl is a person who’s at a picnic and she’s very happy.

And I’ve seen it a few times in newspapers, almost always in North Carolina, back in the 1940s and 50s. I can tell you that I got curious about this a while ago because there’s a little band in Allegheny County, North Carolina called Pearl at the Picnic.

And they have a banjo player, guitar player, mandolin, upright bass and harp. So they play kind of Americana folk music. And I reached out to the band leader, whose name is Vicki Burton.

And I think you’ll appreciate this, Leslie. She said that her mom lived to 96, and she described her mom this way. She said she was a big bundle of convictions, strong opinions and spirit, never at a loss for words or ideas. But on the rarest of occasions when she had no real zeal in the matter, she would say, I’m just Pearl at the picnic. Or sometimes she would say it when she was simply content.

So you’ve got a sister over in North Carolina.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I’ll be anxious to tell her there’s a band named that.

Yeah, yeah. You might look them up online. And all of which is to say that the expression is out there, but it’s not very common.

We’re hoping that now you feel like Pearl at the Picnic.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, I thoroughly enjoy your show, and thank you so much for the opportunity to share my saying with you.

Oh, it’s our pleasure.

We appreciate it. And we’ll put this out on the air so others who use the expression can give us more information.

Excellent.

That sounds great.

Outstanding.

Give your mom our best, okay?

Yeah, give her a kiss from us.

I’ll do it.

Thank you so much.

And tell her happy birthday when the day comes from us.

I’ll do it.

Thanks.

Y’all have a great day.

Bye-bye.

877-929-9673.

Call us with your information about Pearl to the Picnic or anything else that you think is odd and weird that people say. You can also try us on the internet at waywordradio.org, where you’ll find all of our past episodes.

And you can reach us a bunch of other ways if the phone is just not your thing.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hey, how’s it going?

This is Brian, and I’m calling from Wilmington, North Carolina.

Right there on the coast.

Well, welcome to the show, Brian.

What’s up?

Okay.

So I run a piercing and tattoo shop, and I have a question.

And it’s about a specific piercing.

And this piercing is below the bottom lip and above the chin.

Most piercers will insist that the word is pronounced labrette with a T at the end, the hard T.

But some other people will say, well, the word came through France, so it’s labrette.

So I would love to know the official word on that.

Oh, goodness.

And what do you call it?

I say labret with a hard B.

Labret.

That’s what you say.

Labret.

L-A-B-R-E-T.

So this piercing below the lower lip above the chin.

Well, they’re all wrong.

No.

Well, we don’t usually say stuff like that on the show.

So let me just put it this way.

Those are not the best choice for pronouncing this word.

The more strict and traditional pronunciation is labret.

With the stress on the first syllable, not the last,

And not a French-y pronunciation,

Because it is not a French word.

It’s fully anglicized,

And we can be pretentious or jokey about it

And pronounce it the French way,

But that’s just not the best choice.

However, I should point out that if you look in dictionaries,

There are at least four different pronunciations,

Because all of them are fairly widespread.

So is Le Bray wrong?

No, it’s just not.

I mean, if you’re ever talking about labrets, you say in front of the Senate or to King Charles,

Then maybe you want to use the more formal pronunciation.

But otherwise, you’re fine.

It’s a tattoo shop.

Nice labret, King.

It’s a tattoo shop and a piercing shop, right?

I mean, how formal do we need to get?

Oh, my goodness.

That’s okay.

Wow.

So let me say, let me practice it.

Labret.

Labret.

Labret.

Yeah.

Stress on the first syllable.

Labret.

Labret.

Wow.

And it just does not work for most people because we don’t want to do that with two-syllable words.

We don’t want to stress the first syllable.

Oh, we’re doing it.

We’re stressing the first syllable.

We’re starting now.

Well, that would solve this big controversy in your community, right?

I gather that a lot of people have strong feelings both ways.

Interestingly, yes.

People love to debate, and it’s just one of those words.

There’s also the dace versus the doth piercing, which I’ve done a bunch of research on, too.

So people love to get a little snippy with each other in the shop.

Yeah, it’s something to talk about while you’re going through a full sleeve, right?

Exactly.

That would be a long conversation, though.

Well, Brian, thank you so much for this question.

I hope we haven’t created a new argument in your community where people, it’s all of you versus the two of us.

Oh, it’s okay.

I’m going to send this out.

I’m going to play this in the shop on repeat.

I’m going to loop it.

I’m going to make sure everybody knows that I’m right.

And everyone else, they can learn.

I love it.

We’ll be like, why are we getting this flood of questions about tattooing?

The constant harassment from tattoo people.

Thank you so much, Brian.

Take care of yourself.

Thank you so much.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

In your workplace, is there a controversy over a word or phrase?

Call us about it and we’ll try to settle it.

877-929-9673.

Earlier we were talking about cows,

And it reminded me of the French equivalent of the English

Until the cows come home,

Which means something is happening for a very long or indeterminate time.

And in French, the idiom is attendre la semaine des quatre jeudis,

Or until a week with four Thursdays.

We’re going to do this radio show until a week with four Thursdays.

And you can help us by calling with your language question, 877-929-9673.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

Grant, you remember not long ago we were talking about the cup code at the Harvey House chain of restaurants in the American West.

Yeah, it was a code where the waitstaff would turn the coffee cups on the table a certain way,

And then the other waitstaff, other servers, would know what kind of coffee and what ad it is.

Exactly.

And a lot of listeners called and wrote us to talk about other restaurant codes.

And the one that keeps coming up again and again is the restaurant code used at the Waffle House restaurant chain.

In fact, Minnesota listener Rachel Zooksworth sent us a link to a 24-minute Waffle House training video that explains this coded system for servers calling out orders to cooks.

And at first it looks absolutely bonkers.

Of course I watched the whole thing.

But when a server calls out the order, the cook starts arranging jelly packs and ketchup packs

And other items on the plate in a very special way.

It’s as if the cook is taking notes, but

They’re taking notes using condiments.

For example, if you imagine that the plate is a face of a clock,

Well at Waffle House the default order for eggs is two eggs plus grits and white toast.

And if

The cook hears an order for scrambled eggs, they place a jelly pack right side up at the six o’clock

Position.

If the order’s for wheat toast, they turn the jelly pack over.

If the customer wants

Raisin toast instead of white toast, then the cook places a pack of apple butter on the plate

Instead of jelly.

And if they don’t want butter at all on their toast, then the cook puts a packet

Of butter under the jelly pack to remind themselves to hold the butter.

And if the customer wants only

One egg.

Then the cook marks that by sticking a packet of ketchup under the jelly pack.

Now,

These mnemonic… This is so amazing.

This is astonishing.

It’s a great video.

We’ll put a link on our website.

And you know, Grant, these mnemonic devices are complicated, but they’re really

Effective because you don’t have lost tickets.

You don’t have to worry about illegible handwriting.

And a trained cook can pretty much walk into any Waffle House anywhere in the country and just

Start cooking right away.

That is a start.

I love it.

I just wonder if it all was invented in one go

Or this is slow accretion over decades, how they reach this point where this is their thing.

And

It does make you wonder what else you’re missing.

That’s so amazing.

Let’s keep those codes coming.

What are the different ways that you can signal information without using words in the workplace

Or part of hobbies or some other way?

877-929-9673 is a 24-hour-a-day toll-free number in the United

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Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Mandy.

I’m calling from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Hi, Mandy.

Welcome to the show.

Hi there.

So I had called in

Just kind of in a frustration state with words lacking around kind of grief and

And loss there’s kind of this blip like I’m sorry for your loss and like summary of what people are

Experiencing and like I know that you’re mourning or you’re grieving and I wondered if there’s

Maybe some better words out there or better ways to describe grief and that kind of thing.

So I wanted to get your thoughts.

Oh, what an interesting question.

What a good topic.

So you’re wondering what to say to someone who’s grieving?

So I’m a nurse.

I work in kind of a care

Coordination space.

And a lot of times I’m working with people who are experiencing some sort of

Grief and I try to acknowledge kind of what people are experiencing and we kind of sometimes

That’s reflecting back what that person is saying and a lot of times I would say you’re grieving or

You know that kind of thing and I wondered if there’s some more colorful language to use besides

Grieving that I don’t know if that makes sense.

Yeah, yes it does.

It really does make sense and I

And I know that in times of grief, people aren’t necessarily their best selves, right?

They’re not going to be the optimal speakers or be able to fabricate new language.

And they reach quickly for the cliches because the cliches are familiar.

Yeah, I’m thinking about the fact that to me, it kind of doesn’t matter the language you use.

I remember when I lost my beloved mother, and I don’t remember anything that anybody said to me then, but I remember that people showed up.

You know, love shows up, and I think just being there, being present, I mean, because there is, I mean, what can you say, really?

I mean, I know that in other languages, there are a few options.

I know there’s an Irish phrase that literally translates as, I don’t like your trouble, that I think is lovely.

I wouldn’t want to be reaching for a phrase from a different language at that point.

Yeah, you might not have the wherewithal even to do that.

It just wouldn’t come readily to mind.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a Hebrew phrase that translates as, I share your sorrow.

To me, I think sometimes that is a barrier for people.

You know, people don’t know what to say.

They can’t start that condolence card or they don’t even show up for somebody.

And I really think it’s about just showing up and being there.

If not physically, at least through kindnesses that you can do, like bringing over the covered dish or taking care of the yard for them while they’re grieving.

Or, or, you know, handling the kids for, for an afternoon so that the adults who are grieving can have some time to do that.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s definitely the more important part is just showing up for people and, and sometimes being okay with not knowing that you’re not going to be able to take away the feeling that they’re having.

Right. But that just kind of being there with them but and I and I wonder too maybe this is another question kind of related to this but is there any words that you know that kind of summarize the like grieving unrelated to death.

So like grieving like function loss of function or you know if you lose a limb or go deaf that’s.

Yeah. Yeah. Or anticipatory grief. If someone’s slipping into dementia or something like that.

Yeah, exactly. And, and kind of, you know, having had big changes in, you know, maybe you’re an athlete and suddenly you, you’re, you know, just undergoing general aging and not able to do the things that brought you joy at that time.

Kind of grieving the changes in life.

I don’t know.

It’s kind of, you know, sometimes there’s good ways to summarize or to reflect back what people might be experiencing in so many words.

And in this space, I find myself caught a lot of times.

Even if you practice that, it’s still difficult, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I would say, like Martha, I have one particular, the death of my brother is the one that still wounds many decades on.

And I still even have a little bit of resentment about the cliches that people said because they seem so thoughtless.

But that was the immature me.

That reaction is left over from when I was a teenager and didn’t have any sophistication at all about grief.

If that were to happen to me now, I would say that what I want most from people to say is nothing.

I really just need them to hold my hand or to hug me or pat me on the back.

And so I think the communication that we’re looking for is about action.

You know, even subtle, gentle, small action.

And the words, like Martha said, are irrelevant.

Yeah. Fair enough.

Well, I’m sure we’ll get a lot of response from our other listeners.

But I want to thank you very much for not only your work as a nurse, but for calling us today.

Thank you.

And thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

Appreciate it.

Take care of yourself.

Bye-bye.

Take care, Mandy.

Thanks.

You too.

Bye-bye.

We welcome your thoughtful responses to Mandy’s question.

What do you say in times of grief that sounds genuine, not cliched, and really conveys your thoughts?

877-929-9673.

Email words@waywordradio.org.

Or send your thoughtful messages through our website at waywordradio.org.

Constance Glidden-Joseph wrote us to say that she grew up in Trevlak, Indiana.

Now, that’s T-R-E-V-L-A-C.

I’d never heard of Trevlak, Indiana.

Had you?

I haven’t, but I think it’s related to something we’ve talked about on the show before.

Is this name backward?

It is indeed.

Calvert, right?

Yes.

Yes.

It turns out that Colonel Cecil Calvert and his wife Lucinda sold some of their land that was in that area to the Illinois Central Railroad.

And they were hoping to have a train depot built there to attract business.

And they wanted the depot to be called Calvert in their honor.

But it turns out that there was another depot already on the Illinois Central Line that had that name, Calvert.

So, as you said, they just spelled it backwards.

Okay.

So they still get recognition and their place in history.

They do.

And Constance grew up there.

Oh, she did.

So for her, this is a hometown story.

Indeed.

Yes.

She said it was a home of 35 people back then.

Oh, 35.

Yeah.

Okay.

We love the small town stories about how places got their names, how you got your name, now your pet’s got their names.

Call us 877-929-9673 or reach us on social media or WhatsApp.

You can find those contact links on our website at waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, guys.

This is Sarah Bailey, and I’m calling from Fleming Island, Florida, right outside of Jacksonville.

Hey, Sarah.

Welcome.

Hi, Sarah.

What’s on your mind?

Hi.

Growing up, when I was a kid, for as long as I can remember, my grandmother and my dad always had this thing.

Whenever something kind of went wrong with one of the kids, like my cousins or me and my sister, they would look at us and go, well, kid, you know, some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.

That was kind of their way of saying, hey, you know, sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn’t.

And I find myself saying that to my kids all the time, especially when my son, who is an athlete, he plays like several different sports whenever they kind of win a game or lose the game.

And I’m trying not to make a huge deal out of it.

I’ll look at them and say, you know, hey, some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.

And it kind of has just proliferated my family, but I’ve never heard anybody else say that.

It’s so useful though, right?

Right.

Sometimes on this show, we like to separate the idea from the language that represents this idea.

And I think this is one of the times where we have to get just for a moment into that.

The concept of this is ancient.

Goes back to many ancient cultures around the world.

It’s this idea of eat or be eaten or dog eat dog.

It’s just expressed differently.

So the idea is ancient.

It’s just an essential part of humans trying to cope with a complex and dangerous world.

And we also talk in English about something being a bear to do, meaning it’s difficult to accomplish.

And I think that’s the same bear as in your expression.

And just the bear often stands in for difficulty.

There is a fantastic website we’ve mentioned before on the show.

It’s called Quote Investigator.

Garson O’Toole runs this.

And he’s tracked this expression back to Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Well, a version of it, the concept of it, who had an essay in 1870 called Farming.

And he’s writing about what life might have been like for primitive humans.

And it goes, he falls and is lame.

He coughs.

He has a stitch in his side.

He has a fever and chills when he is hungry.

He cannot always kill and eat a bear.

Sometimes the bear eats him.

And so although it’s not exactly the same wording, there’s a really good chance that this idea comes from Emerson, adding the bear into this eat or beat notion, because Emerson’s work was widely shared and widely studied ever since he put it in print.

Oh, well, my dad was an English teacher, so it would make sense for him to have known that.

And my grandmother was, I mean, she wasn’t a teacher, but she was college educated and had a degree in English as well.

So that makes perfect sense.

Yeah.

But it’s not until the early 1900s that we see it almost in the form that you learned.

It’s sometimes you hunt the bear and sometimes the bear hunts you.

So at least approximately the version that you know is at least 120 years old.

Well, wonderful.

Thank you so much.

I’m so excited to call my cousins and let them know about it.

Oh, it’s our pleasure.

Thank you for reaching out.

Call us again sometime.

Thank you.

Have a great day.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

Hi.

You have A Way with Words.

Hello.

This is Sarah from Indiana.

Well, I was just thinking about what happens when people blow their lips and it kind of makes that sound and people call it a raspberry.

And I’m wondering why they call it a raspberry.

So we’re talking about put your tongue between your lips and blow out real hard and it’ll make like a farting noise.

Yeah.

You were too polite to say it, so I went ahead.

Yeah.

So is this a common occurrence in your life?

Do you have lots of raspberries headed your way?

No.

I heard it on the TV the other day and wondered why they call it a raspberry.

Yeah, that’s a wonderful question.

One of the possible reasons they call that flatulent sound we make with our lips a raspberry is because of the sounds in the middle of the word raspberry, that S-P-B.

All of those sounds kind of, in a small way, sound like little flatulence.

We make this flatulent sound with our mouths by putting our tongue between our lips to show disagreement or disrespect or derision.

Is that how you use it or have had it used?

That’s most commonly how I use, but I also work with babies.

Oh, well, that’s different.

In that context, too.

Yeah, a baby raspberry is a whole more, it’s a much more precious thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole different one.

Little bitty raspberry.

Little bitty.

So there’s a story going around that I don’t know if it’s true that says that raspberry is from British rhyming slang for the expression raspberry tart.

Because raspberry tart rhymes with fart, F-A-R-T.

And so it was shortened.

And I don’t think it’s true.

And actually the authors of the Dictionary of Rhyming Slang, Antonio Lillio and Terry Victor, also think the story might be folk etymology.

And I figure if the authors of the definitive book on rhyming slang aren’t sure, then I’m not sure either.

And it’s shortened.

Did you know that to razz someone, as in to make fun of them, also comes from raspberry?

No.

So, yeah.

So that’s connected.

And a lot of this might have to do with, it might have started in the theater.

It was a sound that you would make to show your disapproval of what was said or done on stage.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

This connects to another word for it, which is bird or the bird or the big bird.

Because sometimes the sound is like a duck or a goose.

And that goes back, that’s 200 years old to call it that.

That same exact sound.

Wow.

Anyway, one more exciting synonym for you.

Have you heard it ever called the Bronx cheer?

No.

Yeah, so it’s often called the Bronx cheer as well, just to get the exact same raspberry sound.

And sometimes you do it with your thumb on your nose and your fingers pointed up, waggling as you make the noise.

You go like that.

That’s like the definitive insult right there.

That is so interesting.

All right.

Take care of yourself, Sarah.

Thanks for calling.

Bye-bye.

Okay, thanks.

Bye.

Call us 877-929-9673 or send us an email.

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A Way with Words is an independent production of WayWord, Inc., a nonprofit supported by listeners and organizations who are changing the way the world talks about language.

Special thanks to Michael Breslauer, Josh Eckels, Clare Grotting, Bruce Rogow, Rick Seidenwurm, and Betty Willis.

Thanks for listening. I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett. Until next time, goodbye.

Bye.

Thank you.