Shame, Shame Gesture Names

Hey there, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, Martha. This is Wendy Shang from False Church, Virginia. How are you?

Hi, Wendy. I’m doing great, and I’m delighted to have you here, as is Grant. What’s on your mind today?

I know it’s called A Way with Words, but I have a question about a gesture that I’m hoping you would help me out with.

Yep, we’ll include that to communication. How about that?

Okay. You have a way of communication, though. It just doesn’t roll off the tongue.

I was wondering, so you know that gesture we use for shame, shame, where you use your two index fingers and it looks like you’re peeling a carrot almost?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’s a good description.

Where did this come from?

Where did we get this idea that that gesture means shame, shame?

What’s interesting is this gesture has sometimes been called scrubbing carrots.

But in German, because there’s a very similar gesture in Germany and Austria and maybe Wales that looks very much like this.

But it’s more about insulting someone or to say, you know, it’s a negative gesture to make disforge someone.

It’s not necessarily about trying to make them feel shame for their actions or words.

So there’s a book called Body Talk by Desmond Morris, and he’s an ethnologist.

And he calls the one we’re talking about, the shame, shame gesture, the four fingers rub.

And he calls the German, Austrian, Welsh one, the four fingers scrape.

But they’re very similar.

And I believe that the North American version that we’re talking about comes from the European version.

Okay. And that’s F-O-R-E, right?

F-O-R-E, four fingers.

And it’s very important to say that this gesture isn’t universal.

It pretty much only exists in North America the way that we use it to mean shame.

So I looked into this, dug around.

I can find references to this gesture going back at least to the early 1900s.

And what’s interesting to me in the world of child language, you know, in the world of children’s folklore, there are also things that you say that go along with it.

Like, for example, Abbasiki.

And I don’t know what it means or where it comes from, but it was recorded in Virginia and South Carolina.

But A-B-A-S-I-C-K-Y, you might say, basicky, basicky, and do that whittling motion with your fingers.

And then in Philly, and I don’t know if this is still used anymore, but folks in the older generations may still remember this.

They would say cisper, S-I-S-P-E-R, or cisper shame, cisper shame, shishper shame, and do the same gesture.

And that comes from an older expression, hiss for shame, like you hiss when you show disapproval of a performance or something that someone said.

So this gesture probably comes from Europe.

And it probably originally was an insult, but in the United States, it means shame on you.

Do you think maybe like the sound, maybe that was supposed to sound like hissing, like when you scrape a carrot or you’re sharpening something, it’s like a hiss?

Maybe, but I think the best guess is that I’ve ever seen, and it’s all guesses because this is not the kind of thing that people are likely to put into print very often, is that it’s directly related to the idea of pointing the finger of shame.

You are literally sharpening the point of the finger of shame.

And finger of shame is an expression.

That’s a lexicalized item in English.

We talk about pointing the finger of shame.

You know, I haven’t used this gesture since elementary school.

And I don’t see adults doing it now, but I remember in elementary school, it was more like the idea of getting a whipping.

Oh, interesting.

Well, I will say this, and Martha, I don’t know if you dug in our email on this,

But a number of our listeners over the years have asked about this expression and joined it with a sound that is mysterious.

And this is when you say

All there

When somebody does something that gets them in trouble

Say in a classroom

And you do the finger gesture

The shame shame gesture.

So children’s folklore is one of my favorite

Things in the world so I’m of course

Naturally happy to bring it back to that.

But anyway that’s what we know, Wendy.

Thank you so much. I really

Enjoy your show so much.

I’m so glad to be part of it.

Yeah, it’s our pleasure. Thank you. Call us again sometime.

Am I right?

Thank you.

Okay, sounds good.

Take care.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye.