What’s the difference between flounder and founder? To flounder is “to struggle or thrash about,” while to founder is “to sink or to fail.” Surprisingly, the verb flounder shares no etymological root with the fish, though the image of a flounder flapping helplessly about on the shore may have influenced our sense of the word. This is part of a complete episode.
Transcript of ““Flounder” Means Struggle; “Founder” Means Sink or Fail”
Hello, you have A Way with Words.
Oh, hi.
Hi, who’s this?
Aniko.
Hi, Aniko. Where are you calling from?
From Long Island, New York.
Long Island, New York. Welcome to the program.
So I have a couple of peeves, and one of my particular ones is when people mix up the words founder and flounder.
Now, I know on Long Island, a flounder is a fish, but I know it also sometimes used to mean when somebody’s having, you know, not really succeeding or having bad results with something.
Founder is something I think of as like a ship running around or sinking or something like that.
And, I mean, they both sound like disaster in a way, but I have a feeling they have distinct and different meanings, and I feel like people use them interchangeably, and yet I don’t think they’re interchangeable.
You’re very perceptive.
I think you’re exactly right.
I think there’s a difference there, and it’s not a big deal if you get it wrong, but why not get it right?
Because getting it right is so easy, right?
That’s right.
Yeah.
So flounder to you is flailing around, struggling for success, kind of not ever quite getting there, right?
Yeah.
Okay, kind of like a fish, literally, a flounder literally flopping around on the beach.
That’s how I picture it.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, that’s it.
And then the founder comes from the Latin for depth, like foundation or profound.
Okay, very good.
The bottom of something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so if a ship is foundering, it’s going under.
It’s sinking to the bottom.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh.
But a company can founder as well.
Yeah, yeah.
I think a way to think of it is if your company is floundering, you may still pull through.
You may make those sales at the end of the month or something.
If it’s foundering, it’s going under.
You’re in big trouble.
You’re already, the downward arc is firm.
And Niko, what got you wondering about this?
Well, actually, I’m a copywriter, and so sometimes I’m the person everybody looks to to get it all right.
And I always have all the answers.
But I’m also one of those people that has to bite my tongue and not correct people’s grammar, because sometimes I hear things that really bug me.
Yeah, people make a lot of mistakes.
That’s painful, isn’t it?
But if you’re paid to do it, just dig in and enjoy, right?
That’s right.
And if they pay me to do it wrong, I just do it wrong and smile.
Oh, really?
They correct your corrections?
Well, you know, sometimes people have opinions and you just have to go with it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s true.
Yeah.
If it’s being right versus a paycheck, then the paycheck wins.
Exactly.
But, you know, we should point out, by the way, while we’re talking about it, that although flounder, you might think it comes from the word for the fish, it doesn’t.
Right.
Two different etymological origins there, right?
It’s just a coincidence.
Yes.
And I don’t think we’re completely sure how it came about.
It might have been a combination of founder and blunder or just all those words with that initial FL that sort of suggest flailing and flopping.
Flapping and flipping.
Yeah.
Yeah, I could always picture it being a combination of blunder and fail or flail.
Yeah.
I could hear that.
But I think now you have a pretty succinct way to explain to all those people who come to you with the wrong use of it, right?
Well, on this one, I could be sure.
Yes.
I got it from you guys, and that makes it right, doesn’t it?
Sure.
Always.
And, you know, we have a high appreciation for those people who are kind of like these little lone islands in the midst of a sea of people who don’t really know the right thing.
Like you’re working alone, all these people around you, all of them looking at you for the correct answer.
We’re happy to help you out.
We’re your lifeline.
If this was a game show, we’re your lifeline, right?
Yes.
Well, that’s a very good way to put it.
Thank you.
And I won’t founder that.
You’ve got a posse here is all I’m saying, Aniko.
We’re your posse.
You want founder or founder.
Take care.
Thanks for calling.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Bye, Aniko.
Bye-bye.
And you’ve got a language posse, too.
And find us on Facebook and Twitter.
