Whether or Not

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, my name is Craig calling from La Mesa.

Hello, Craig.

Hi, Craig. Welcome to the show. What can we help you with?

Thanks for having me.

I was listening to this show a couple of weekends ago, Saturday,

And the word irregardless was being discussed,

And I believe it was Grant who wound up that piece using the term

Whether or not the user would find that acceptable and common usage for himself.

And it immediately occurred to me that whether or not it’s something that I’ve always questioned as redundant in our language,

Because whether itself is a conditional, and yet we feel compelled to add the or not to that.

And I do it myself, so I’m not disparaging those who do, because it’s very common.

But I guess my curiosity goes to how did that crept into semantics in terms of how it’s used today?

In that case, I probably should have not used the or not.

Certainly if I was writing it, I probably would have cut it immediately out of my writing.

When you’re speaking, you’re a little looser and you tend to be more colloquial.

Yeah, and after you’ve heard the word irregardless, too, you just sort of get all discombobulated.

So your larger point is how do we get to the point where or not seems to make sense even though it’s not strictly needed?

Exactly, because it does sound a little odd just to say whether something happens.

I understand that, but I’m curious how it crept into language.

There’s some cases for or not where it makes sense to have it.

And I think the confusion here is that whether or not has kind of become idiomatic in a way that you don’t want to break it up.

And that’s the thing with idioms.

We’re inclined not to break them up.

Here, let’s try these sentences, for example.

And you tell me whether I need to have or not in them, right?

Or not.

Whether or not you like it, Martha is dressing as a ballerina.

Yeah, I can see that going both ways.

But still, my instinct tells me that correct is whether because it’s redundant otherwise.

If I said whether you like it, Martha’s dressing as a ballerina, it doesn’t quite work.

I agree.

Right.

How about this?

I don’t care whether you like it, you’re dressing as a ballerina.

That’s more acceptable with weather by itself.

Right.

Because it sounds more natural to our ear to leave the or not off of that one.

How about this one?

Find out whether or not Martha would like to dress as a ballerina.

Either way.

Find out whether Martha would like to dress as a ballerina.

Yeah, I’m with Craig.

Either way.

Either works, right?

So, gosh, is there any rule?

Yeah, there is.

We’re getting to the heart of the, it’s difficult.

Sometimes you have to step outside of the rules and say, does it feel right?

Are people going to stumble on what I’m saying and what I’m writing?

Are they going to go and put on their brakes and not pay attention to my message and instead pay attention to my words?

And again, when you’re speaking aloud, off the cuff, this is an unscripted show, for example.

So Martha and I make colloquial kinds of conversation all the time.

Whether you like it or not.

Whether you like it or don’t.

But when you’re writing, you know, it’s a case-by-case thing.

How does it feel?

How does it sound?

And how will it be received?

If I’m writing for the Toastmasters, I’m definitely going to be really careful about that.

If I’m writing for the New York Times, I’m going to pay a lot more attention to that.

But I’m trying to think if there’s a hard and fast rule for this.

Here’s the way that I look at it.

Okay.

In some cases, you have only two choices.

Whether or not you like it, you’re dressing as a ballerina.

-huh.

Versus whether you like it, you’re dressing as a ballerina.

The first one sounds right because it’s A or B.

Right.

There’s no C or any other choice.

It’s only two choices.

I like dressing as a ballerina or I don’t.

Yeah, exactly.

So the or not really makes sure that you understand that it’s a binary choice, right?

In other cases, it’s not opposites and it’s not binary and might have more than one choice.

So it’s almost like whether it’s the case that.

Right.

Whether you’re going to the store or going to the beach or you’re going to go dress as a ballerina, I’ll be there for you.

Right.

In that case, the or not absolutely is uncalled for because there’s no opposition there.

Right.

There’s no one or zero, black or white.

Salt or pepper, peanut butter or jelly.

There’s no oppositional kind of statement.

Yeah, it’s just kind of conjectural.

Yeah.

So I would say, Craig, that any number of style books and guidebooks can give you advice on this,

But most of the best ones will always say native speakers think this sounds correct

Or native speakers think this doesn’t sound correct.

Pay attention to their sample sentences because those are what will guide you.

And ultimately, of course, when in doubt, rewrite it so you can just avoid it altogether.

That makes sense.

And that’s kind of what I do, I think.

I just sort of wanted to understand a bit more about how that or not crept in,

Because there are cases for both, and I’ll use both.

But every time I hear it, I’m like, oh, that’s redundant, but it sounds right.

Craig, thanks for having us think about this.

I hadn’t really thought that one through.

Thanks for having me.

Bye, Craig.

Bye now.

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