To Have Beef or to Have “A” Beef With Someone?

Hey there, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Nikki Hamer, and I’m calling from Massachusetts.

Let me start with this.

I have a beef with beef.

You’re a vegetarian?

No, I’m just…

Well, I was, but then it kind of, you know, when you have kids and you have to like test

And cook everything because you want them to have kind of a good sampling of food, your

Vegetarianism kind of nods off a bit.

But this beef is about a feud with my daughter.

When you have a problem or you have an issue with someone, I tend to say you have a beef with someone.

And she says you have beef with someone.

And I thought that was so strange.

I’m like, well, you have to put a preposition.

You have to put an A in there or something like that for it to make a bit of sense.

And I was thinking, I was like, well, what’s the best usage?

I mean, how are you supposed to say it?

Are you supposed to say you have a beef with someone?

Are you supposed to say you have beef with someone?

Apparently, her English teacher also says beef without using an A or anything like that.

And I’m just horrified.

So I was wondering if this is possibly an age difference.

She’s 13.

Or is it a regional difference?

I grew up in Wisconsin.

We live in Massachusetts. So I wanted to know what is the proper usage of that phrase and maybe a little bit about its origin and why is there so much beef with beef?

I have no idea. It even sounds ridiculous. Just thinking about it.

Oh, this is good. Let me ask you, do you know how old your 13 year old’s English teacher is?

I think we’re around the same age. He’s, I think, in his early 40s, so I’m probably a little older than him, but I don’t know. I thought it was so strange.

Nikki, this is a really good one because I think you’ve really hit on something that is actually happening to this slang word.

So just to look at a little bit of the history, beef started in the very late 1800s.

We’re talking 1899 is the first use we know of in print to mean having a problem.

So having a problem with someone or something or a situation or to have a complaint.

So it is old.

It is an old slang word.

And there are lots of variations on what beef is mean.

But in slang, we’re not talking about the food.

Not talking about the animal. So sometimes it has meant a fight or an altercation. Sometimes it has

Meant just a harsh talk. You know, he gave me a lot of beef when I asked him to do this thing.

So sometimes it’s meant a criminal charge or a rap sheet, or it’s meant a sentence to prison,

Something like that. So there’s lots of different, all of these, it’s negative. Let’s just focus right

Now on the one that you’re talking about, which is a disagreement. So you’re talking about to have

A beef with someone, to have a disagreement with someone or an issue between you that can’t be

Resolved. Traditionally, it has had, it has been a count now. You can have a beef or multiple beefs,

But starting around 1970s, in the 1970s, we start to see it change.

There’s a citation in Green’s Historical Dictionary of Slang that says,

Has he got any beef with you?

And we start to see the mass noun version of this appear.

And a mass noun doesn’t require an article and can’t be counted.

So it’s kind of like sheep versus dogs.

We can have a dog.

We can have two dogs.

But we have one sheep.

We have many sheep.

We have two sheep.

And then Pamela Monroe at UCLA and her linguistic students,

For a number of years, put together some slang collections.

And in 2001 and 2005, they had entries for beef.

And they also used it as a mass noun.

So they would say, have beef with or have beef between.

Oh wow again no article there they don’t have a beef right so they used it like your daughter

Oh oh my goodness how could they be wrong too

No it’s language change and language change is normal and what we do is we accept it and we

Just acknowledge the the amazingness of witnessing this happening before our eyes and go whoa i caught

Onto this. I noticed it, and how cool is that I saw it happen. That’s so true. Oh, wow. That’s

Amazing. That is so interesting. Now I have to tell her she’s right. Oh, no. Or the language

Change is correct. Yeah, this wonderful example of language changing right under our feet,

Moving from a count noun to a mass noun. Oh, wow. The larger question is, why do we talk about beef

To mean fight. I don’t know.

Except if you’ve ever seen cattle fight

Or bulls fight, it’s kind of

Alarming to see these huge animals

Go at it. It is.

You back up. You go find a tree

To hide behind because they

Are alarming.

So maybe that’s why. I don’t

Otherwise know. Well, Nikki, I think

The even larger question here

Is what are you going to do about it?

How are you going to talk to your daughter about this?

I know what she’ll say. She’ll say,

I told you I was right.

And then I’ll just say, you know what?

Marth and Grant did not say you were right.

They just talked about the beauty and change of slang and language.

Oh, come on, Mom.

Mom, what you’ve got to say to your daughter is, you know what?

You were right.

I love this.

I’m so glad that you taught me something.

That’s so true.

And then she’ll say, see, you’re old.

And you give her a kiss and a hug, and you guys go have ice cream together.

That sounds wonderful.

That is so cool. I think that’s so cool.

That is really, really cool, and I thank you so much for that.

Yeah. Oh, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

And Nikki, you now have to call us again soon, all right?

Thanks, I will. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Parents and their children often have discussions about language.

They teach each other things.

What have you learned from your children, or what have you learned from your parents?

Share it with us.

We’d love to hear how language is changing in your house.

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