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Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

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Tyrant flycatcher
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1
2009/04/12 - 8:09am

Grant (4/11) mentioned the curious way birds are sometimes named for the people -- e.g., Couch's kingbird, one of the so-called tyrant flycatchers (genus Tyrannus). I'm wondering about the name "tyrant." The explanations I've heard -- that they snap their bills decisively on their prey, sit proudly, chase away intruders -- sound like folk etymology to me, and, besides, they don't add up to tyrant. My guess is that it all starts with the small crown of red feathers on the Eastern kingbird (the first to be seen by the English), whence the fanciful "king." That became "Tyrannus" in the scientific name as a simple translation. But taken back into English, it becomes "tyrant."

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
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2009/04/15 - 5:33pm

That was my guess, Allears. As soon as I heard what sounded like Greek "tyrannos" (king), I assumed it had some kind of crown.

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3
2009/04/16 - 5:29pm

All this talk of crowns and Greek has got me thinking about my name - Steven - which, according to all the baby name references, means crown in Greek. But then I once came upon an online reference explaining that crown is a mistranslation of Steven (Stephen), and this mistake is most notably done in English versions of the Bible. Instead, Stephen supposedly means some token given as a reward for distinction, such as we might give medals or ribbons today. I'm hoping that Martha can help me "find myself," and though I realize that a medal or ribbon is a demotion from a crown, I'd rather know the truth. I hope you don't mind this tangent to the topic!

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
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4
2009/04/17 - 2:39pm

Steven (so that's your name!), I'm all about tangents, so bring 'em on.

The places I've seen "stephanos" in ancient Greek are references to the laurel wreath worn by a victor in an athletic competition. I think they were also given to outstanding citizens, though. Either way, I'd say that although it's not a gold item you could melt down and sell for cash, it's still a pretty highly prized honor!

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5
2009/04/18 - 1:18pm

Okay, so it's a crown of sorts, though not a crown signifying power. I assume that laurel wreaths were worn on the head? And it makes sense that the equivalent honor today would be a medal or ribbon. Maybe it's better this way: I get the crown without any of the responsibilities! Thanks.

May I ask a bonus question? For decades I've been looking for a “perfect” edition of Aesop's Fables - the right combination of text and illustrations, though I give more weight to text. When I visit bookstores I always look at their stock of Aesop's. I have such fond memories of my mother reading these fables to me when I was young, and I am trying to find a version that lives up to those stirring memories (mom doesn't remember what book she read from). The translations I have seen fall short. Mostly they seem annoyingly prosaic. I don't know if the original fables included the explicit “moral” at the end, but if they didn't it doesn't really bother me if they are included. With your interest in Greek, I'm thinking you may have a personal favorite English edition of Aesop's Fables?

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6
2009/04/24 - 9:19am

If it's not-prosaic you want ... Marianne Moore wrote a verse translation of Aesop's Fables -- translated from a French version.

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7
2009/04/24 - 10:27am

Thank you for the suggestion, but I can't seem to find a book that contains these translations. There are the "Complete Poems of Marianne Moore" but would they include this? I'm not adverse to prose in the fables. I just don't like the uninspired prose of the versions I have seen. After all these years it's gotten to the point where I'm thinking of writing my own version, though I'd rather see someone with more talent, and familiarity with ancient Greek language and culture, do it!

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8
2009/04/29 - 7:15am

They should be in the "Complete Poems." She published them separately as "The Fables of La Fontaine." Only some of them are Aesop's Fables, as I understand it. (I read a few somewhere, and I'm vague on this.) In the end they're La Fontaine's take on Aesop and then a free translation of that, so they're not the real deal you're looking for -- but probably good reading on their own.

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