Bun in the Oven (episode #1490)

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it. I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette. On our Facebook group, Laurie Stiers wrote,

My dad has been gone for a few decades now, but his silly way with words comes to mind often.

The other day at breakfast, I remembered his habit of making up fake words in other languages.

Bacon was referred to with a nice, robust Southern German accent as oinkensstrippen.

Oink and stripping for bacon.

I love that.

And her family also used the term hurt you.

What was that?

Hurt you?

I know.

It sort of rhymes with virtue.

But hurt you is if you have a bruise or a cut or something.

Something hurts you.

Oh, so I have a hurt you.

Yeah.

Ow.

Sort of like an owie.

But I was thinking about the fact that when I was growing up, our family would say,

Target.

I’m going to Target.

This fake Frenchiness to it, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Or go grocery shopping at Croge.

Oh, we said K. Roger in my family.

Oh, you did?

I’m kind of on the model of Kmart, not really a fake foreignism.

Oh, K. Roger, that’s good.

But speaking of fake foreignisms, the fake German there reminds me of something I encountered when I first started in radio.

So this would be 1988.

I joined the staff of KCOU, the student radio station at the University of Missouri-Columbia in Columbia, Missouri.

And on one of the engineering panels was this little sign in fake German.

And I found a version of it here.

I don’t know if this is exactly right.

But it’s something like, das Computer Machine ist nicht für Gefingerpoken und Mittengraben.

Ist easy schnappen, der Springenwerk, Blohinfusen und Poppenkorken mit Spitzensparken.

Ist nicht für Gewurken bei das Dummkaufen.

And I don’t even know if that’s real German.

I think it’s not.

I don’t think it is.

There’s enough words like Dummkaufen that we can all get.

It means like, leave it alone, dummy.

And I needed that, you know, as like a freshman student.

Like I needed to know, don’t press the big red button.

And isn’t that wall of lights called the blinking lights?

Yeah, das Blinken lights.

Das Blinken lights.

A lot of places will have it.

When I worked in IT, we would often add the, you know, print a label or paste the label at the top of the cabinet that says das Blinken lights.

And you would tell somebody, I need you to look at Rack 12 in das Blinken lights.

Well, I’m betting that your family may have had some terms like that.

We’d love to hear about them.

Call us 877-929-9673 or send them an email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Scott from Susanville, California.

Hi, Scott.

Hi.

My wife is pregnant, and it’s been really fun, especially when we meet people or run into people that we haven’t seen at the grocery store.

And we actually had one guy that we know just kind of look stunned and point at her belly.

And we’re like, yep, she’s pregnant.

And it’s just been a lot of fun.

And we’ve been thinking about different ways of saying it.

We’re just wondering how many different ways there were and if there’s any history behind it.

You know, we like Great with Child.

We heard that one and thought that was pretty good.

Great.

Of course, Knocked Up.

But we just wanted to get your guys’ opinion and see what else there was and what kind of history you’ve learned.

Yeah, Great with Child is in the Bible.

It’s biblical.

Yeah.

Yeah, did I hear you say Knocked Up?

I’ve heard Knocked Up, but that’s not our preferred one to use.

And what’s her favorite?

What’s her favorite?

She likes Great with Child.

Great with Child.

In a joking way, not super serious.

That’s great. And then once she has the baby, she’ll be really great with child.

Yes, absolutely. But one that was curious, we heard an old one was like in the family way, I guess they used to say maybe.

And that one just kind of creeps me out.

Really? Why?

I don’t know. I guess it’s something about the secrecy behind it.

Maybe they weren’t allowed to talk about it, and it seemed so natural and something you’d want to celebrate.

So I don’t know.

It almost seems like you did something wrong.

There’s a whole slew of these terms, everything from what?

Swallowed a pumpkin seed?

Do you like that one?

Or swallowed a watermelon seed?

Yeah, that’s a good one.

Well, there’s basic ones, too, like lumpy or clucky or awkward.

Clucky.

These adjectives have all been used in English dialects.

Eating for two.

But the clucky goes back to the idea that you are like a mother hen who’s broody sitting on your eggs waiting for them to hatch.

So you’re clucky.

I think that might get me in trouble with my wife.

Okay, so we’re going to rule out clucky, right?

How about eating for two?

Eating for two.

Yeah, that one comes up mostly when she wants the rest of the pizza,

And I have to give it up because, I mean, how do you argue with that?

I have lists.

There’s at least 120 of these.

I have lists, my friend.

Wow.

120?

Let me just run through some, all right?

Delicate condition, double ribbed, with child, be with book,

In the familiar way, not just in the family way,

In for it, in pot, in pup, preggers, pregnant, pregnable,

Poisoned with a kid in the basket, bun in the oven,

Joined the pudding club.

I have no idea what that means.

What is that?

Shot in the giblets.

Giblets.

Away the trip.

Full in the belly.

Belly up.

Apron up.

Knocked up.

Up the spout.

Up the stick.

And up the way.

But joined the pudding club?

Joined the pudding club.

Oh, that’s my favorite.

Some of these are inscrutable because they come from other times and places,

And it’s hard to know without doing a great deal of research on every single one

Why they are what they are.

Bay window.

You have a bay window.

It means you’re pregnant.

Oh.

We have a bay window.

Here’s one that looks like it’s pretty widespread in the south.

Broke her toe.

Broke her toe.

I’ve never heard that one.

Interesting.

That’s weird.

I don’t know.

Are any of these appealing to you, Scott?

The Pudding Club sounds pretty good.

I like that.

I’ll have to run them by my wife.

I don’t think she’d like the clucky one, although the mother hen thing makes sense.

Great with book or with book is just funny because I don’t really know.

Yeah, we just thought it was really interesting that there were so many different ways.

And I guess you can kind of tell how excited the person is about it by which phrase they’re using.

Great with child, you know, obviously you sound pretty impressed with yourself.

But, you know, knocked up not so much.

Yeah.

Well, I think the grate there is like large in that case.

But, Scott, what’s your wife’s name?

Marika.

Yeah, well, I’m glad that you seem to be consulting her on all of these terms.

I think this bodes well.

I think you’re both going to be great with that child.

Oh, well, thank you.

Scott, thanks for calling.

I really appreciate it.

All right.

Thank you, guys.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

You know, I’m betting that our listeners have lots more of these that they’d like to share with us.

So if you’ve joined the Pudding Club already.

If you’re pregnant and you have a funny way to say it, let us know.

877-929-9673 or send those emails to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello.

Welcome to A Way with Words.

Hi.

This is Barb Slater in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hey, Barb.

Welcome to the show.

What’s going on, Barb?

I have a question.

I was at a Thanksgiving dinner and nice people who invited me.

And we were talking about favorite parts of the turkey.

And I said skin, of course.

But one of the ladies there, my friend Martha, said,

The bishop’s nose, and I stared at her with big blank eyes,

And finally they told me it’s the tail of the turkey.

And I had never heard that expression before,

And I was wondering where that came from, the bishop’s nose.

Aha.

Well, the older version is the pope’s nose,

And that’s been around since the 18th century.

And the bishop’s nose came later,

Because that part of the turkey does look like a nose, right?

It does, yeah.

If you think about it.

And is it about holding the turkey upright?

It kind of looks like a bishop’s miter, like the hat that they wear, or like the Pope’s hat?

No, it looks like a nose to me.

No, I’m saying the nose looks like the nose at the bottom of a hat, though, kind of.

If you’ve turned the turkey upright, doesn’t it?

Or the chicken upright?

Yeah.

You know what it reminds me of is a Monty Python thing with one of the crazy, or maybe it was Princess Bride, with a crazy bishop that couldn’t do the ceremony.

Oh, yeah.

It was Princess Bride with the lisp.

Yeah, the lisp.

Well, I’ve always thought that if you just cut it off and put it up to your nose, it looks like a nose.

Like a very fine, real nose.

Yeah.

So there are lots of different versions of it.

The Parsons nose is sort of the Protestant version.

Preacher’s nose.

Preacher’s nose.

Yep.

All these nosy things.

Is it just in one area?

Because it seems like, you know, I’m originally from Colorado, and I had never heard of this before.

But boy, when you say it out here in the Midwest, everybody knows.

Is that right?

That’s interesting.

It’s got a long history, right?

It does.

Way back in the U.K., all throughout the British Isles, shows up in the English-speaking world pretty much here and there.

Yeah.

Is it named after a particular pope or bishop?

Well, there’s a story that goes that it was named as the result of anti-Catholic feeling after the reign of James II.

But I don’t know if that’s true or not.

I also read that part of it might have to do is, of course, it was originally for a chicken because it predates turkeys being widely eaten throughout the English-speaking world.

Was that the idea is that you might only put a chicken on the table if your local clergyman was coming over?

So that might have a little bit to lend to why you would call it the Pope’s nose, the preacher’s nose.

That’s like the Italian pasta strozza preti, which is really thick, and it means it strangles the priest.

Because you would stuff the priest when he happened to show up for lunch on Sundays.

But yeah, the Pope’s nose or the Parsons’ nose.

Do you like that particular part of the turkey?

No, not really, but I just, I like the name, the bishop’s nose, and it just made me laugh.

Go ahead.

Sorry, because usually it’s just, you know, the last part over the fence, you know.

Yeah, that’s another name for it. That’s a very common name for it.

Yeah, or the north end of a chicken flying south or something, or turkey flying south, something like that.

It occurs to me there’s one other term for this in French, le soleilesse, which literally means something like only a silly person wouldn’t eat it.

Oh.

Well, there you go, Barb.

It’s widespread.

It’s not just you.

And I agree.

It’s very vivid, very colorful.

Thank you guys so much for being a good reference place.

Happy to help.

Thanks for calling the library desk.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Actually, no, this show is called A Way with Words.

We answer questions from around the country and around the world about language and slang and family sayings.

And we’re also away with birds.

Away with birds, yeah.

And anything to get Martha to tell stories about Aunt Maiso in North Carolina.

877-929-9673.

And email words@waywordradio.org.

If you describe somebody’s prose as lapidary, it’s a compliment, right?

Lapidary prose has been used since the 1700s to mean things that have the elegance and precision of inscriptions carved on stone monuments.

Oh, nice. How nice is that?

Yes, and you can hear the Latin word lapis in there, which means stone.

In that word, lapidary, you also see lapis in lapis lazuli, the beautiful blue stone.

Precious blue stone.

Yes, yes.

Or lapidary, the term that’s used for gem cutting.

Oh, okay, gotcha.

And the other place that you see that root, which is super cool, is in the word dilapidated.

It comes from a Latin word that means to scatter like stones.

So kind of fall to rubble or fell to rubble.

Yes, exactly.

Okay, very good.

How cool is that?

That’s cool.

Well, you know, if you want the history behind a word, you would be surprised.

877-929-9673.

Send the longer thoughts and email to words@waywordradio.org.

And you can talk to us on Twitter.

That’s W-A-Y-W-O-R-D.

This show is about language examined through family, history, and culture.

Stay with us.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett.

And here he is from New York City, that handsome fellow, John Chaneski, our quiz guy.

Hi, John.

Hi.

Thank you, Grant.

Hi, Martha.

Hey.

What’s up?

Hi.

I have a cute little quiz for you today, I think.

Oh, adorable.

I think you’ll like it.

Now, this was inspired by a Twitter thread.

This particular Twitter thread consisted of a whole bunch of people riffing on a single title, The adult cartoon show Rick and Morty.

You familiar with it?

Oh, yeah.

I saw that thread.

Yeah.

Not necessarily for kids, just FYI.

Right.

I’m going to give you definitions to some of the malapropisms people used for Rick and Morty, and you guess which ones they are, okay?

Okay.

Okay.

For example, if I said, Rick and Morty, isn’t that when you die and your body gets all stiff?

You would say, no, you’re thinking of…

Rigor mortis.

Rigor mortis.

Rigor mortis, yes.

And we’re off.

Rick and Morty, isn’t that the character Will Ferrell plays in the movie Talladega Nights?

No, you’re thinking of Ricky Bobby.

That’s it, right.

Rick and Morty, doesn’t that refer to the actual physical presence of a business or organization?

No, you’re thinking of brick and mortar.

Oh, yes, that’s it. Very good.

Rick and Morty, isn’t he the guy who sings Live in La Vida Loca?

No, no, no. That’s Ricky Martin.

Oh, right. I’m thinking of Ricky Martin, right.

Rick and Morty, isn’t that a brand of easy-to-prepare side dishes?

No, you’re thinking of riceroni.

Oh, that’s it. Yes, the San Francisco treat. Yes.

Ding, ding.

Rick and Morty, didn’t he play the dad in the movie Honey, I Shrunk the Kids?

No, no. That’s Rick Moranis, eh?

Oh, right, right. That’s Rick Moranis, eh? Yeah.

Rick and Morty, isn’t that the thing where someone tricks you into watching the video for never going to give you up?

No, that’s Rick Rowling.

Oh, yes, yes. My mistake.

Rick and Morty, isn’t that an adjective meaning expedient and effective but not without flaws?

Oh, no, no, no.

You mean quick and dirty.

That’s it.

Quick and dirty, Rick and Morty.

Same, same, same.

Rick and Morty, isn’t it a children’s rhyme about falling down?

No, that’s Ring Around the Rosie.

Yes, Ring Around the Rosie.

You’re right.

Rick and Morty, isn’t that the Rudyard Kipling story about a mongoose?

No, that’s Mickey Tiki Tavi.

Mickey Tiki Tavi, right.

Finally, Rick and Morty, isn’t that the short comic actor who frequently starred opposite Judy Garland?

No, that’s Ricky.

Mickey Rooney.

Mickey Rooney.

I was going to say Mickey Rooney.

Oh, Mickey Rooney.

That’s my problem.

John, thank you so much.

Thank you, guys.

You were fantastic.

Well, we do a lot of goofing around with language on this show, but we also take your questions about all kinds of aspects of language.

So give us a call, 877-929-9673, or send your questions and email to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

My name is Doug Moore, and I’m calling from Evansville, Indiana.

Hey, Doug, welcome.

What’s up? What can we help with?

Well, see, my sister received a tarnished silver serving tray from my dad.

And she had read online where you can use like a cheap toothpaste and remove the discoloration.

So, yeah, she starts to polish up the tray, wipe it on there, and polish it off.

Gets done with the tray, and it worked.

So, yeah, next, she moved on to the forks, knives, and spoons.

And so she’s going through the drawer, cleaning them off.

And after about an hour and a half, she’s like, this is for the birds.

Yeah, this is for the birds.

I’ve heard it before, and I think Paul Corn Leghorn said it.

Oh, no, the cartoons.

And he says, this is, I say, this is for the birds.

I think you’re right now that I think about it.

So you’re wondering why we say this is for the birds if we’re disgusted with something or just exasperated?

That’s correct, yes.

You got any ideas about that?

Well, I talked to my aunts and uncles, and they remember hearing it when they were growing up, Alabama.

But other than that, I mean, I’ve heard it a few times, and every time it comes up, it’s kind of something to laugh at.

But it’s not very popular, and not anymore.

But I think people know what it means if you say it, right?

This is for the birds.

This is for the birds.

All right.

So, Doug, here’s what we know about it.

It dates back to at least the 1940s.

I have seen it in print in 1941, which means it’s probably older than that.

And it really exploded in use during World War II, which was a really huge time for the burgeoning of slang and sayings and idioms in the United States.

What’s really interesting about it, there are longer versions of it that I can’t say on the air, but they amount to it is poo for the birds.

And the idea is this thing is so bad, it’s like what the horse leaves behind and that the birds peck at, if you know what I’m saying.

Oh.

So it’s like horse manure that the birds are going after to get some nutrients from.

Right.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

So that’s why it’s for the birds because it’s basically poo.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can see that.

Makes sense, right?

In my mind growing up, I always thought it was vultures picking at the carcass of a dead animal.

It’s for the birds, meaning it’s basically as worthless as a roadkill.

In my mind, I just thought it referred to something that was bird-brained.

Bird-brained, okay.

You know, small-brained.

But no, as Grant says, it has to do with what the horse leaves behind and the birds pick at.

And there’s a nice confluence there with the idea that it’s chicken feed or it’s bird seed, meaning it’s small potatoes or it’s worthless or it’s a small amount of money.

So all of these kind of work together that suggest that anything that’s for the birds is not something that matters very much.

Yeah, not worthwhile.

Yeah, kind of worthless.

Yeah.

So there you go.

All right, Doug, thanks for calling.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Take care.

Thanks, Doug.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Did you hear a word that’s tickled your brain and made you wonder about it?

You can call us, 877-929-9673, and we can talk about it, or send it to us in email.

That address is words@waywordradio.org.

Hello. Welcome to A Way with Words.

Thank you. My name is Aravind.

Aravind?

Yes.

And where are you calling from?

I’m calling from Frisco, Texas.

Frisco, Texas. Welcome to the show.

What can we do for you?

Yeah. I’ve been curious to know about the word wordsmithing and the origins of it.

I could not find it. I mean, at least I was not satisfied with different explanations that I saw.

But I was curious to know a bit more about that word.

About wordsmithing.

About wordsmithing.

Are you a wordsmith yourself?

I don’t know.

Sometimes maybe.

But whenever I’m writing a PowerPoint presentation or writing some drafts, I keep on getting this.

And it’s been for over the years.

But I keep on hearing this.

So we need to wordsmith it more.

Oh, as a verb.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because when you first said wordsmith, I was thinking of it as a noun.

Yeah.

Yeah, so…

I was referring it in the context of wordsmithing, but maybe it is now, too.

I would be… I’m open for more education on that.

-huh. And so when you talk about wordsmithing something, what do you mean exactly, Aravind?

Well, in the context that I have referred… I’m referring to and I have used to is when we are rephrasing some sentences or kind of correcting some errors or trying to make it more…

Sometimes it also could differ to grammatically being correct, but it also sometimes is choosing the right word for the context or, you know, basically removing some of the words and replacing it with one word that could mean a sentence.

Right. Okay. Well, that makes sense. And of course, the smith in wordsmith or wordsmithing has to do with the old practice of somebody working with metals, like a blacksmith, somebody fashioning something.

And you do that when you’re wordsmithing.

You do that with words.

You fashion them and make them fit.

And so I can see how that would arise.

The word wordsmith has been around at least since the mid-19th century or so.

And there’s a positive connotation, right, Martha?

Like if you wordsmith, it’s usually good things are happening with your pen, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Wordsmithing implies a certain amount of skill and expertise.

And I’m not so used to seeing it as a verb, but it makes sense to me.

Yeah, thanks a lot.

I mean, it makes sense because is locksmith and wordsmith, these are all maybe have the same roots in there?

Yeah, that same suffix of smith.

So you’ve also got ironsmith, goldsmith, gunsmith, and they’re all working with…

Jokesmith.

Well, joke is a little more like words, but the older ones are all metals, like Martha said, and the newer ones are a little less literal.

Yeah.

I see.

Maybe there will be a tweet Smith that will come up.

A tweet Smith, yeah.

You know what? I bet maybe there already is.

I don’t know.

But, yeah, that makes sense.

Somebody’s got it in their bio.

A tweet Smith since 2007.

Yeah.

And that Smith is the same Smith in the name Smith, which is the most common name in the United States.

It’s a name that’s associated with a profession, like blacksmith.

Thank you very much.

I learned something new today.

Well, great.

We’re glad to have you, Arvind, and happy wordsmithing.

Yeah, I’ll do that.

Thank you very much.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Okay.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

Yeah, it’s such a widespread surname.

Smith, Haddad, Ferraro.

They’re all about working with metal way back in the day.

Yeah, Schmidt.

When more people worked with metal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Call us with your language question or your language story.

877-929-9673.

We talked a couple of weeks ago about gramograms.

Those are letters that have meaning because you sound them out.

We got that letter from the guy who makes wine, and they put the letters MT on vats that are empty.

Yeah, so we were wondering if that occurred in other fields.

And we heard from Angela Frank in Petaluma, California, and Jessica in the Florida Panhandle, who both pointed out that when they were in school, in physics class, they would use NRG for energy.

Yeah, and it’s funny.

I didn’t think of that at the time we did the call, but there’s a bank called the MNT Bank, which I think is hilarious.

MNT?

So they have an ampersand between the M and the T, but it still looks kind of like empty bank.

Oh.

I’m sure they know this, but still.

I hope they know that.

Yeah, they better make that ampersand really big.

877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hello, this is John Teranko from Ludington, Michigan.

Hey, John, welcome to the show.

What can we do for you?

Oh, gee, I have a phrase that my mother-in-law uses all the time, and we do not know of its origins.

Oh, boy.

The phrase is, you’re breathing a scab.

Ew.

Yeah, gross.

She uses that all the time?

Breathing like with the lungs and air, breathing a scab?

Yes, correct.

And in what context would she use this?

You said she does it all the time?

Well, no, not all the time.

Just sort of one of those tongue-in-cheek kind of things like, you know, you’re skating on thin ice.

That kind of a situation.

-huh.

Okay, so it’s sort of like a joking warning then?

Oh, yeah.

She always says it with a grin.

I see.

Okay.

Breathing.

Breathing is a scab.

All right.

So what’s really interesting about this is that is one version of the phrase, but the more common version is breeding a scab, B-R-E-E-D-I-N-G.

And I believe, although I have a footnote and an asterisk here, I believe it has to do with just the idea that you are going to get in so much trouble that someone’s going to knock you on the nose and leave a wound there that will later scab over.

So the idea is you’re breeding it as in raising a scab or, you know, like you breed an animal or something like that.

Right. Well, that’s interesting.

We thought maybe that was it, but we weren’t sure.

That sounded a little violent, you know, and it’s always, it came from her grandfather.

And he was a really humorous guy.

Lots of, he’d say a lot of things that were, you know, just tongue in cheek funny that no one had ever heard of.

So we almost thought that he made it up.

No, no, it’s been around.

Yeah, it’s been around.

And my footnote is there is a term used in medicine called to debride.

And it’s spelled like it’s debride, D-E-B-R-I-D-E, but it’s pronounced debride.

And it’s removing damaged tissue from or trash or foreign objects from a wound or a cut.

And so you debride it.

Like, for example, if you get a burn, they will take off the tissue that’s not going to heal.

That’s called the debriding.

And it’s just so interesting to me that it sounds, that breed part sounds so similar to the expression to breed a scab, the idea that you might be picking at a scab and raising trouble.

Right.

Just the idea of picking at a scab means kind of irritating a thing that was on its way to getting better.

Oh, that sheds whole new light on this.

Yeah, but I’m not 100% sure it’s related because the registers of language are different.

Like the breeding of scab is far more idiomatic and informal, and debriding is far more formal and learned.

Yeah, I feel like I’ve heard doctors say debride.

Debride, yeah.

If you look it up, though, it’s debride.

Really?

Yeah.

Right, right.

Well, that’s fantastic.

We had no idea.

She’ll be shocked to know that it’s much more than just what her grandfather made up.

Yeah, cool, right?

Absolutely.

John, thank you so much for calling.

Well, thanks for having me on the show.

Okay, and stay out of trouble.

Oh, I will.

I don’t want to breathe a scab.

Or breed one.

Right.

Bye-bye.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Perfect illustration of what we say all the time.

These kinds of expressions linger in your family.

Older relatives use them.

They get passed on to your parents or grandparents.

You pick them up, and one day they’re in your mouth, and you’re like, why am I about to say this thing?

Why does this expression come naturally to me?

And you call 877-929-9673 or you send us an email to words@waywordradio.org.

And then Martha and I will try to help you with it.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Dan. I’m calling you all from Black Mountain, North Carolina.

Hi, Dan.

Hi, Dan. Welcome to the show.

I have a question about a word that I made up a while back.

I was talking to my friend Becky and I used the word ear space.

And she understood what it meant, but we both realized we had never heard it before and it wasn’t in the dictionary.

Huh. It sounds like the space between your ears.

Mine’s full. What about yours?

What you got in there?

How did you use it, Dan?

So I used it in two ways.

One was having ear space free for something new to listen to, like a new podcast.

And the other one was comparing things I listen to, like saying that two bands exist in the same ear space because they sound similar.

Oh, interesting. I like that.

So you wanted to share this word that you came up with with the whole world and try to get it to spread or you have questions about it?

Well, I was wondering if it sounded like something that would spread because additionally, I didn’t even realize I made it up.

It just kind of came out. It wasn’t like I was thinking about it and it was understood.

So it seemed like something that might catch on.

Yeah, and if you Google it, there are people using ear space in similar ways to the way that you used it.

I wouldn’t say that that’s a problem at all.

Independent coinages of the same word are really common because people have similar lives and similar problems,

And they solve them linguistically in similar ways, and that’s what you’ve done here.

A lot of people talking about the exact—the first meaning you have is the one I see the most,

Is the ear space, meaning room to listen or time to listen to something new or something different.

People talking about why they listen to their podcast at two times speed.

They’re like, I don’t have the ear space to listen to it at regular speed.

Yeah, and I think it’s useful in that sense.

It’s sort of like bandwidth only specifically for something you listen to.

And it kind of echoes mind share nicely.

If you talk about a product or a brand having a mind share, meaning how much of your mental space in a category is devoted to, say, the soft drink that you choose or the television show that you prefer to watch.

That’s interesting.

Yeah, that’s good.

So ear space, define that again for us.

So the first one is?

Saying that you have ear space open for something to listen to.

Like I have ear space for a new podcast.

Do you have any suggestions?

Okay, and then the second one is?

The second one would be something like saying, for example,

Nickel Creek and the Mountain Goats are in the same ear space for me music-wise

Because they sound the same and I listen to them when I’m in the same mood.

Outstanding.

I like this.

I like this very much.

Yeah, I like them both.

And I like the way that ear space sounds sort of like air space, which is kind of the same idea.

Oh, yeah.

You know, that it’s something that has room for something else or doesn’t.

Yeah, right.

So I agree with the mountain goats and Nickel Creek having the same ear space, but I have an easement in my ear space for Nickelback.

Dan, thank you so much for your call.

We’re going to spread this word.

We’ll see what happens to it, all right?

All right.

Thank you all.

All right.

Have a good one.

Bye-bye.

Bye, Dan.

Bye.

He said a thing, which I love.

The neologist in me was kind of quivering with joy because he said he didn’t even realize that he came up with the word.

Yes, yes.

And those are the best words.

Those are more likely to survive.

Not the ones that you labor over their coinage and try to come up with the cleverest thing.

Just the ones that fill an instant need perfectly.

Right, right.

You just kind of blurt it.

And the second thing he said, it was understood.

Yes.

That’s a successful word.

Yes, those are two big factors, right?

877-929-9673.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

Two words that have blown my mind this week.

One of them is listless.

Did you ever think about listless?

Listless.

Yeah.

How am I lacking a list, right?

That’s it.

I’m listless.

What’s happening to me?

Right.

If you’re listless, you’re sort of lethargic.

Dragging your butt and lethargic and malaise.

Yeah.

But are you missing a list?

No.

It must be something else.

The grocery list?

Is it like a ship listing?

I don’t know what it is.

That was my thought.

No.

But that’s not the origin of listless.

What is it?

List is an old word that means desire.

If you’re listy, then you’re desirous.

And it’s related to lust.

So if you’re listless, you’re lacking lust.

Lust for life is missing.

Okay.

And what’s the other one?

The other one is full-blown.

Oh.

Like a full-blown case of narcissism or something like that.

Right, yeah.

And it means entirely, right?

I never thought about that, except in my mind, there was glassblowing involved.

I don’t know.

But what is it?

Yeah.

The blow in this case has to do with a blossom.

Oh, of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There’s an old use of the word blown, which means that a flower has opened.

Okay.

Yeah.

And it’s related to blossom.

And the word peach blow is one of my favorite words.

It has to do with the color of a peach blossom.

The peach blow.

Peach blow.

But if something is full blown, it’s fully in bloom.

That’s outstanding.

Yeah.

The story behind words. That’s what we’re doing here.

Yeah, none of it is arbitrary.

There’s always a story behind language. Sometimes we know it, sometimes we don’t.

Call us to find out the story behind your words, 877-929-9673.

Or you can send us an email to words@waywordradio.org or talk to us on Twitter @wayword.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, my name is Chris. I’m calling from your backyard here in San Diego, California.

What’s on your mind, Christopher?

So I recently started a new job, and I think whenever that happens, you’re keenly aware of all the things that you’re seeing and hearing around you.

And one of the things that I’ve noticed is one of my supervisors, I guess you could say, always greets me with what I consider somewhat of a peculiar phrase, what’s cooking good looking?

It’s not something I’ve encountered much, and I especially wouldn’t have expected to hear something like that in a workplace environment.

And so it just stood out to me, and I thought I’d see if you guys could offer any clarity around that.

Yeah, are you trying to flesh out an HR dossier for a case that you’re bringing against somebody?

Never.

Are you working at a restaurant or a hair salon?

Oh, there we go.

Neither of those.

I work in education, so there’s nothing about my physical appearance that would come across.

What’s cooking good looking?

Immediately the Hank Williams song came to mind.

Do you know this song?

No, I’m not familiar.

Good looking, what you got cooking?

How about cooking something up for me?

Now I can just hear that on the 8-track in my dad’s car back in the 1970s.

And that song was huge.

I forget what year that was.

I want to say 1950-something.

But the term is older than that.

And even older is just what’s cooking on its own is a way to greet somebody.

At least to 1921, where I can find it in a sports column in a newspaper.

Somebody said, you know, it’s hard to find out what’s cooking with Player X on Team Y.

So to use cooking as a way to say what’s happening rather than literally what is on the stove and going to become a meal.

Gotcha.

All of the slang dictionaries that treat this all kind of all seem to have decided that the origin of it is that moment when you walk in the house and somebody else is making a meal that you can smell, but you’re not sure what it is.

And so you kind of shout out, hey, what’s cooking?

Right.

Gotcha.

Maybe that’s the case.

I don’t know.

It was really funny.

One of the slang dictionaries in their first edition said it was the man coming home to ask the woman.

And the next version, they took the genders out of it, which I thought was, I was like, oh, progress.

I love that.

So anyway, yeah, dates to the 1920s is what’s cookin’.

Later, the rhyming version comes along, what’s cookin’ good lookin’.

And then the song just kind of immediately fastens this word to the American idiom.

It just becomes a part of just the lingo and things, something that people say.

And it’s been with us ever since.

So, Christopher, I’m wondering if at the end of the day when you’re leaving, does this person say, after a while, crocodile, or see you later, alligator?

No phrases like that.

Those are a little more common, you know, that I’ve heard throughout my life, but no.

Do you have responses when your boss asks you what’s cooking good looking?

No, but a friend recently said I should reply with what’s shaking bacon.

There we go.

I thought, you know, that might be a good option.

We can equip you with a few more.

Do you want them?

Please.

You can say, what’s the story, Morning Glory?

Perhaps you know that song.

Yes.

What’s the word, hummingbird?

It comes right after that.

What’s the word, hummingbird?

You can also just kind of, this is not quite right, but it might work.

How now, brown cow?

And what’s the plan, Stan?

I love that.

And what’s your boss’s name?

Is there a natural rhyme there?

His name is Kevin.

Oh.

Yeah.

What’s in heaven, Kevin?

No.

I’m leaving work at 11.

I like that one.

I’m turning it up to 11, Kevin.

There you go.

I like that.

That is a great one.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you guys so much.

Yeah, sure.

Thanks for calling, Christopher.

Really appreciate it.

Bye-bye.

All right.

Bye.

I like in Spanish, ¿qué te pasa, calabaza?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

What’s up, pumpkin head?

Pretty much.

And the response is, un burro por tu casa, a burro next to your house.

Wow. Why?

An animal.

Just because it rhymes?

Yeah.

877-929-9673. Email words@waywordradio.org.

Not long ago, I was talking about the term gram weenie, which is a hiker who measures out every single gram that he or she is carrying.

They’re like ultralight hikers.

They’re obsessing about, like, they don’t even carry pennies because they’re too much extra weights.

Oh, exactly.

If they have pills that are in foil, they’re cutting around the foil.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do they shave their heads before running?

They probably blow their nose and all that.

Anyway, Graham Weenie, that reminded Jan Kunze of San Diego of the story of Bill Lear, who invented the Lear jet in the 1960s.

And Jan writes, he once said that he would trade his grandmother for a one pound weight reduction of his plane.

Thereafter, his crew from engineers to the bench mechanics referred to a one pound reduction as a grandmother.

As in, how many grandmothers this week?

Or that idea is worth half a grandmother.

And I wasn’t so sure about that, but I looked it up in a book about the invention of the Lear jet.

And I wanted to read you just a little bit of that.

Lear has cut hundreds of pounds from his jet after the engineers had squeezed it down as far as they could.

One afternoon, he strode into the seat manufacturing division of the plant and asked to see the aluminum shell around which the pilot’s seat is built.

Why couldn’t we cut a square foot right out of the back here, he asked, drawing a square on the aluminum.

This part doesn’t support anything.

The engineer working on the seat grinned sheepishly.

Another grandmother and a half, said Lear.

And so they actually used grandmother as a unit of measure.

That’s funny.

And it reminds me, if you know anything about space travel, NASA does this.

They count things down to the microwave.

To the last grandmother.

Yeah, the book The Martian was great on that.

A lot of math surrounding the weight of things and how much fuel you need to leave the surface of Mars or to propel your rocket ship to the place it needs to go.

Every tiny little thing costs you.

That’s true in life, too, isn’t it?

It does, yeah.

We should all travel light.

Cast off your worries and cares and criticisms.

There are words in the strangest places, probably in something you read.

We know you made a note.

You looked it up.

Share that word with us, and we can all talk about it.

877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Leslie in Taos, New Mexico.

Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Leslie.

Hi, thank you.

Well, I do some editing and proofing and came up against this issue of toward versus towards.

You know, the writer, the author that I’m working with feels like towards is what’s comfortable for him, what he feels is normal.

And I kind of feel like toward is the way it should go.

And I just want some clarification.

And where is he from, Leslie?

Well, he lives in California now, but I think he grew up somewhere in the East Coast.

Okay. And why do you feel it’s the other way?

Toward? I just think that’s what I’ve always seen and that the S seems unnecessary.

So we’re talking about toward, T-O-W-A-R-D, versus towards, T-O-W-A-R-D-S, right?

Right.

Okay.

And there’s a pretty simple distinction.

It’s much more common in the UK to say towards with the S on the end, and it’s much more common in this country to say it without the S on the end.

Okay. Would he be grammatically incorrect if he wants to keep the S?

I wouldn’t say he’d be grammatically incorrect.

I mean, it’s not really about grammar.

Yeah, it’s more like about style.

So stylistically, whatever the house style guide is.

So if you, say, are the editor of a book publishing company, you might have house style that says, even though you have an American audience, you might prefer the S on toward, and that would just be the way that you would do it.

Yeah.

But by no means is it clear-cut.

Certainly, as the Internet over the last 20-plus years has exposed more Americans to British writing and more British to American writing, it’s become more kind of confused.

Okay, because he likes to write in his, like, speaking voice.

Very interesting that you mentioned that, Leslie, because I was just about to say, now that I’m thinking about it, when I’m speaking, I will say towards.

Yeah.

But when I’m writing, I don’t use the S.

Interesting.

Isn’t that funny?

Yeah.

And I guess that’s just the way he grew up.

Yeah, or he reads a lot of, you know, in his field, he reads a lot of British writing.

You know, maybe a lot of British academic journals.

Maybe just he picked it up.

Yes.

But in any case, it’s not a major style error or violation, but I would be consistent throughout the document that you’re editing.

Whichever you choose, make sure you stick with it.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Sure thing.

Glad to help.

Okay.

Thanks, Leslie.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

And, you know, the great thing is that it’s a written document because there’s the whole difference of opinion.

Yeah, the pronunciation of T-O-W-A-R-D, the kind of, how shall we put this, classic, maybe even elitist pronunciation is toward, T-O-R-D.

But many, many, many, many people throughout the English-speaking world, throughout the Anglosphere, say toward.

They say it toward.

They say it like it’s written.

They pronounce the W.

It’s two syllables, not one.

You know, I think I grew up saying it one syllable, toward.

With the W.

Yeah, with the W.

So there’s three pronunciations there.

So toward, toward, and toward.

So I’m glad Leslie didn’t call about that.

Yeah, well, I think we’ve cleared that up anyway.

Have we?

Yeah, say whatever you want and go forth.

No, it’s kind of one of, it’s almost to the point of being snobby to insist that someone say toward because it is so incredibly rare these days.

Yeah, I wouldn’t worry about it.

At least in this country or this continent, people tend not to say toward.

Right, right.

And it’s a word that comes from toward, to in that direction, right?

Yeah.

Bring us your language disputes, 877-929-9673, or send them to us in email.

That address is words@waywordradio.org.

I’m going to adopt the word avish into my vocabulary.

That’s A-W-V-I-S-H, avish.

It means to be slightly unwell or out of sorts.

It’s a dialect term from Northern England.

Avish.

And it can also mean dull or half-witted.

I was looking at a 19th century dictionary that says,

A person feels avish when he’s been up all night and finds himself in a third-class waiting room at the railway station before breakfast next morning.

Avish.

Avish.

A-W-what?

V-I-S-H.

It might be a version of half-ish, hoffish.

And it might also be a version of off-ish, a little bit off.

Oh, off-ish, too.

Yeah.

But I like that, just for that term where your teeth feel like they’re wearing sweaters.

Oh, I know that feeling.

Yeah.

And one shower wouldn’t be enough.

877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Yes, this is Ramon.

We are calling from Carn City, Texas.

All right.

What’s on your mind?

My kids wanted to know exactly where the word supercalifragilisticexpialidocious came from.

Could you spell that, please?

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Have they been watching Mary Poppins?

They have, and one of my sons was singing it while we were listening to you guys a few weekends ago, and then that’s where we’re trying to understand is just exactly how that word came to be.

Yeah.

And now we’ve administered an earworm to all of America.

Everybody’s singing the song going, oh, why did they have to say that word?

Yeah, well, it was definitely popularized by the 1964 Disney movie about Mary Poppins.

But it was actually floating around longer, or versions of that were floating around longer than that in the 1930s.

Yeah, 1931, we find it in prints in a newspaper in Syracuse, New York.

And it’s spelled a little differently, but it’s very similar.

Supercaloflogilistic expialidocious.

So it’s just as difficult to spell as the way they did it.

Yeah, it’s written by a woman named Helen Herman, and this may not be the first use ever, but it’s the first use we know of, and she’s talking about why this wild, nonsensical word is so useful to her, and she says,

It’s very adequate in any type of appreciation.

When asked how you liked a certain movie, or what you think of so-and-so, or what your opinion is of Santa Claus, you can merely answer supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, and you will have condensed many thoughts into one.

Interesting, very interesting.

Yeah, that’s…

So we all, yeah, we all thought that it was just a word they made up for the movie, but that’s interesting that it actually originated way before that.

Well, you know, it’s funny that you should mention that because there were lawsuits about the song and the movie.

So the song was written by two brothers in the name of Sherman, I believe, and they were sued by somebody who had written a couple different versions of a song using the word in 1949 and 1951, Parker and Young.

And they lost because there was earlier evidence that the word already existed, not only from this 1931 article, but a few other places as well.

Yeah, or various versions of that word.

Various versions of the word.

But close enough where the judge in the case basically said, I’m just going to treat all these versions as one word, and I’m going to rule for the defendant.

Yeah, so they actually lost the lawsuit.

The people who were trying to get money from Disney.

And they sued them for some huge sum of money because it was a very popular film.

Yeah.

Right.

It’s so interesting that a word so old also was in debate in the legal system as well.

Yeah, that must have been a fun trial to cover, huh?

The headlines write themselves.

And as a matter of fact, there was a story by our colleague Ben Zimmer who writes about language in the Boston Globe a few years ago.

And the headline for that is Super Cala Contentious.

And he talks all at length about the word’s history and the lawsuit.

Wow, well, that’s very interesting.

My kids will be excited to know the origin of it.

Great.

Ramon, thank you so much.

Absolutely. I appreciate you guys.

Take care. Bye.

Okay, take care. Bye-bye.

All right.

877-929-9673.

Email words@waywordradio.org or try us on Twitter @wayword.

We were talking earlier about the fatty bump on a turkey that’s sometimes called the parson’s nose or the pope’s nose or the bishop’s nose.

If you want the scientific term for it, it’s called the Europygian.

The Europygian.

I think I hear similarities to Calipygian in there.

You do.

You do.

Let me spell it for you.

Okay.

U-R-O-P-Y-G-I-U-M.

Europygium.

Pygium.

Okay.

And the pidgey part relates to the rump or the rear?

That’s right.

The rump or the rear.

And you’re exactly right.

Calipygian in English means having a beautiful butt.

Okay.

Yeah.

Calipygian.

Yeah.

And for some reason, I don’t know why the pronunciation changes, but the term dasipigel means having a hairy butt.

That’s another scientific term.

A lot of people are writing that word down for later use.

877-929-9673.

Want more A Way with Words?

Listen to years of past episodes at waywordradio.org or find the show in any podcast app or on iTunes.

Our toll-free line is always open, so leave us a message at 877-929-9673 and we’ll take a listen.

We’d love to get your messages at words@waywordradio.org or hit us up on Twitter @wayword and look for us on Facebook.

This program would not be possible without you.

Grant and I are out to change the way we listen and think about language, and you’re making it happen.

Thanks also to senior producer Stefanie Levine, director and editor Tim Felten, director Colin Tedeschi, and production assistant Emma Kelman in San Diego.

In New York, we thank quiz guide John Chaneski, and that master of keeping it real, Paul Ruist at Argo Studios.

A Way with Words is an independent production of Wayword, Inc.

From the Recording Arts Center at Studio West in San Diego, I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett.

So long.

Bye-bye.

Thank you.