Animal Crackers (episode #1636)

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it. I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette. We had a voicemail from Catherine in Strucka, Pennsylvania, who wanted to share a phrase from her stepmother. Whenever somebody did something frustrating, or if, say, she was waiting at a traffic light and the car in front of her didn’t start off when the light turned green, her stepmother would always say, “Are you posing for animal crackers?”

Posing for animal crackers. Doing a little elephant there.

Well, I thought for sure that this must be her stepmother’s own phrase, but not at all. I mean, it’s such a wacky one, right?

Right, right. Posing for animal crackers. It’s a thing though, right?

It’s definitely a thing. Of course, animal crackers have been around since the late 19th century. And these are these little semi-sweet cookies that are shaped like giraffes and tigers and camels and monkeys. And they bring back such memories for me. When I was little enough to be put in the shopping cart and my mother would push me around, she would always just grab animal crackers off the shelf and give them to me to eat while we were going around the store just to keep me quiet.

My understanding of this expression, what I’ve seen used over the years, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s something about being frivolous or lazy or not doing very much.

Yeah, or just being silly. You know, I thought that maybe it had something to do with the Marx Brothers film Animal Crackers, but that was 1930. And the expression goes back at least to the early 1900s. The instances where I’ve seen it, it’s sort of like they’re making fun of whatever somebody’s doing. They look silly or they’re doing something fruitless.

Are you posing for animal crackers? Or I’ve seen being a model for animal crackers.

Yeah. Although that’s an older version of it. I love it.

Well, don’t just sit there posing for animal crackers. Pick up your telephone. Call us. 877-929-9673 is toll free in the United States and Canada. And if you want to reach us another way, there are a dozen ways to do it. You can find them all on our website and all of our past episodes at waywordradio.org.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Yes, my name is Laura, and I am calling from San Antonio, Texas.

Welcome to the show. What can we do for you?

Yeah, so I was calling in regards to a saying that my dad uses a lot. He is 88 years young, and he is a veteran. And we usually go to, when we do the appointments, the doctor’s appointments, you know, we look at the labs and stuff. And, you know, most of the time it’s good. You know, there could be a level or two off. But anyhow, I get pretty surprised with his results. And the saying that he usually uses is, well, it’s because, you know, why, right?

And I say, why? His saying is, well, because I am a fine piece of leather, well put together.

And what do you take that to mean?

He means, well, you know, he could be a little, you know, a little stuck up, you know, so maybe that or…

You’re calling your father stuck up?

Well, I have to say he was a good-looking guy. You know, when he was young, I have to admit.

A handsome devil, huh?

You know, like a Richard Gere type of look.

Oh, okay. Nice.

But I’m not going to tell him that now because I’ll forget about it. I won’t hear the end of it. Never give a parent an advantage.

We won’t either. So, no, I think pretty much him telling me, you know, he has pretty good family genes.

Okay, gotcha.

Yeah, and you’re just wondering, like, where did this handsome devil get this saying from?

Correct, correct.

All right. So the saying again is?

I am a fine piece of leather well put together.

All right, yeah, that’s what I thought it was, a fine piece of leather well put together. There were some variations on this, sometimes a tough piece of leather well put together or just like leather and well put together. There was a song in 1969. I don’t know how popular it was. It’s kind of this real fast and loud gospel soul song. It’s fantastic. You can find it on YouTube by Donnie Elbert, E-L-B-E-R-T. It’s called A Little Piece of Leather, but the line in the song is, “A little piece of leather and she’s well put together,” which may have helped popularize the term, but the expression goes back at least to the 1930s.

I found it in a high school yearbook as a student quote. But what’s more important is where it came from before that. And I can’t prove this, but lots and lots and lots of shoe companies over many, many years, we’re talking probably more than 100 years, have advertised their shoes. And this is well before the modern day. With variations on, and I quote the line, “good leather, well put together.” Because it rhymes. And I’m talking tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of advertisements in newspapers for many, many decades across the United States. And my suspicion is that put some form of this phrase into people’s minds. And so they joked that they’re like a fine pair of shoes, which if you’ve ever seen, like, say, a finely crafted set of, you know, Italian dress shoes, the very expensive kind.

They’re gorgeous.

Yeah, that buttery leather.

Oh, buttery. They’re just, before they’re worn anyway, they smell good. They feel good. It’s clear that somebody with years of experience has been at work here with the best tools and the best intentions and made something that is almost art.

So my suspicion is that his expression, a fine piece of leather well put together, is a variation on this line that shoe companies have used to advertise their well-made leather shoes.

Love it.

Yes, he has a lot of sayings, but that’s the one that he’s always using. So he wanted to be on the radio with me as a matter of fact. He’s like, I got a lot more. I’m like, well, Dad, your type of sayings are from the military. And, you know, this has to be a family show.

Exactly, exactly.

Laura, it’s been a delight. But share that song with him, the 1969 Donnie Elbert song, A Little Piece of Leather. He might really enjoy that.

I will do that. Thank you so much. I appreciate y’all’s time, and I enjoy your show.

Thank you so much. Give your dad our best, will you?

I will. Thank you.

All right. Take care of yourself.

Bye-bye.

Take care, Laura.

You too.

Bye-bye.

877-929-9673.

We were talking not long ago about the joys of memorizing poems and what that can do to your mind. And I came across another wonderful quotation. This one is from Janet Fitch’s book, White Oleander. And a character in there says, “Always learn poems by heart. They have to become the marrow in your bones. Like fluoride in the water, they’ll make your soul impervious to the world’s soft decay.”

Oh, that’s a book title right there, The World’s Soft Decay.

I know, right? Isn’t that a post-apocalyptic book right there waiting to be written?

That’s right. Memorize some poetry so you can get through it. Why don’t you call our toll-free line in the United States and Canada and recite some of your favorite verses into our voicemail?

877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

This is Peter. I’m calling from Colbert, Wisconsin. I’m interested in learning about a phrase that one of my professors used. I’ve never heard it before or since, but when he was referring to a person who had become angry, he would describe them as madder than a peach orchard boar.

And that’s not an expression I’ve ever heard before. I wonder if you can tell me what it’s coming from.

So let me get this again. Madder than a peach orchard boar.

Yes. B-O-A-R.

That’s colorful.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that meant really, really angry?

Apparently so. He was a notorious practical joker, and when he would pull one of these jokes on one of his subordinates, if they got particularly upset with him, that would be the phrase he used.

Okay, and any idea where he was from?

Well, the fact that he referred to peach orchards and boars made me think he was from somewhere like Georgia, although his accent really wasn’t that much further south of the Mason-Dixon line than maybe Kentucky or Tennessee.

Yeah, well, that makes sense because these expressions involving the behavior of peach orchard boars are scattered throughout the country.

But they tend to concentrate in the south and the south midlands there where Kentucky and Tennessee are.

Yeah, madder than a peach orchard boar.

It’s a really colorful expression that connotes the idea of the old practice of pasturing your hogs in peach orchards.

You know, letting them go there and eat the windfall, you know, the peaches that have fallen off the tree.

And you can just imagine this whole pack of hogs being let loose to go pick up these peaches and eat them whole.

And some people have speculated that it has to do with the idea of the peaches actually fermenting, you know, being on the ground long enough so that they have…

Yeah, but in any case, you can imagine these hogs just gulping these things down and competing for them.

I was going to say.

Yeah, I bet it was a little competitive.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You know, I don’t know if it has anything to do with them eating the peaches whole.

I’ve seen people talk about the fact that maybe, you know, once the pits went through, that agitated them even more.

I can see that.

These analogies using the term peach orchard boar go back to the 19th century, and there are lots of different versions of this.

Crazy as a peach orchard boar or crazier than a peach orchard pig or a peach orchard sow.

Tipsy as a peach orchard sow.

Full of nuts as a peach orchard boar.

And you can just imagine them ranting and frothing, as they say, like a peach orchard boar.

Yes. Wow.

Well, Peter, thank you so much for spending some time with us.

We really appreciate it.

Well, thank you for that piece of information.

I will sleep a lot better knowing where it came from.

All right.

Call us again sometime.

We’re glad.

Take care.

No bores in your dreams.

I will.

Thank you so much.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Okay.

Thanks.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

We’d be happier than peach orchard bores if you’d give us a call, 877-929-9673.

That’s toll free in the United States and Canada.

And if you’re somewhere else in the world, there are lots of ways to reach us.

Find them all on our website at waywordradio.org.

Here’s a handy word I’m adding to my word horde, foodercoodering.

What?

All right, let me make some guesses here.

Foodercoodering?

Yes.

Vacuuming up the food crumbs left by a dog after it’s snarfed down at dinner.

No?

No.

Cleaning up the mess made by raccoons after they’ve gone through your trash cans.

No.

No, what is it?

Well, food-a-cooter-ing in Appalachia is a term for just being idle or lazy or doing something stupid.

Stop your food-a-cooter-ing.

Well, heck, I need that word. That sounds like most of my life.

877-929-9673.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett, and walking in the door, wearing a deerstalker and carrying a Meerschaum pipe, it’s our quiz guide, John Chonesky. Hi, John.

Hi, do you have a place I can put my magnifying glass down? That’s what I need first.

Right next to the violin and the slippers with the shaggy tobacco.

That’s good. Okay, good. Thank you. Okay, good. We’re all set to go then.

You know, guys, I know a little something about poetry, and one thing I learned early on is that many great poems do not rhyme.

This is great news for poets because there are a huge number of words that don’t rhyme.

Now, there’s a problem when you have words that look like they rhyme.

These are called I-rhymes.

Are you familiar with I-rhymes?

We’re going to write some simple two-line poems, and we’re going to make sure they don’t rhyme.

The words we’ll finish each line with might look like they rhyme, but they won’t.

For example, when I play peekaboo with my blank, I so enjoy the sound of her blank.

Now we’ll finish those lines with…

Laughter and daughter.

Yes, when I play peekaboo with my daughter, I enjoy the sound of her laughter.

Good. Maybe not much of a poem, but it doesn’t rhyme.

And it’s awfully sweet.

Okay, I’ll give you the two lines. You tell me what I rhymes would complete them.

All right, I rhymes. They look like they rhyme, but they don’t. Got it.

Right. Like ballet and wallet.

Gotcha.

There you go.

Okay.

Got it?

Good.

I was told of a guy who wore bees as a blank.

It’s the silliest thing that I ever have blank.

I just made a dumb rhyme in my head, but it’s not right.

Who wore bees as a blank.

Beard?

It’s the silliest thing.

Yes.

Bees as a beard.

It’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard.

I’ve heard, yes, beard and heard, beard and heared.

Sir, our clubhouse is respected.

These halls are blank.

Running around in a clown suit is simply not blank.

Hallowed and allowed.

Oh, good.

Yes, these halls are hallowed.

Running around in a clown suit is simply not allowed.

I’m soundproofing my walls.

I’ve lined them with blank.

My podcast sounds great, but it was a lot of blank.

Cork and work.

Yes, I’ve lined them with cork.

It sounds great, but it was a lot of work.

I’ve lined them with cork.

Cork.

Cork.

We were hiking the woods.

I heard my wife blank.

I ran to her side.

She’d been stung by a blank.

A goss, but a wasp.

A goss and a wasp.

Yes, gasp and wasp or wasp.

Finally, in England, in the House of Blank, the peers are all fans of Away With Blank.

The House of Lourds are fans of A Way with Words.

That’s right.

The House of Lords are fans of Away With Wards.

A Way with Words.

That’s us.

Well, the game was afoot.

If you’d like to join us, do some games with us, 877-929-9673, or email words@waywordradio.org.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Wendy and I’m from Charlotte.

I have a question on a phrase I heard a co-worker tell me a few weeks back.

They walked by me and said, are you ready to race for pinks?

And I had no clue what they meant.

I actually thought it was that he was referring to a pink slip.

Like I was, you know, are you going to lose your job or something?

And he was saying it so lighthearted that it just didn’t really match what I thought it meant.

So, yeah, I had never heard that phrase before.

I assume it does not have anything to do, though, with losing a job.

No, no, it doesn’t.

Where were you going that you were racing for pinks?

Well, I mean, I work in banking and just headed home.

Oh, I see.

Instead of just passing on the way out the door.

Who could leave work the fastest and get the heck out of there?

Maybe so.

Yeah, I think that might be.

Okay, gotcha.

Yeah, racing for pinks usually means that you are going to race in some kind of semi-organized or very organized fashion.

And the winner of the car race gets ownership of the other person’s car.

And the pink is the certificate of ownership.

Okay, well, that makes sense.

Yeah.

And so I don’t know if they’re still pink, but apparently at one point they were.

There’s some strong evidence that this bit of lingo for pink slips started in California.

Perhaps the 1920s or earlier, there was a law that passed in 1924 in California that required that certificates of ownership be presented when transferring ownership of a car or getting license plates.

And at that time, that certificate was already known as a pink slip.

And then later it was abbreviated to Pinks sometimes in a very slangy fashion.

If you’ve watched the Fast and Furious movies, and I know that you have, Wendy, they use Pinks in that movie.

To be honest, I’ve never watched them, but Charlotte is well known for NASCAR.

It’s all about family, Wendy.

That’s true. That’s true.

But we are in NASCAR heaven here, so I think that might have something to do with it.

Yeah, yeah.

If you like car racing movies, they’re completely ridiculous, but a lot of fun.

So yeah but probably what originally happened is that pink form so multi-part forms aren’t that common anymore but where the top sheet is white and the sheets underneath could be either a pink color or a canary color or some other color maybe a buff color sometimes they’re called.

Those are incredibly common, so you write on the top sheet and through some kind of transference.

The pressure of your pen or your pencil creates additional impressions on the sheets underneath, so-called carbon copies.

So that pink form is the one that you get.

The government gets the white form, and maybe your insurance company gets the other form.

So that would be why you would have the pink form, literally pink-colored, because you have that copy that says it’s yours, and the government has the other one.

I see. Okay.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

Well, I’m glad you weren’t getting the other kind of pink slip.

Yeah. So the other kind of pink slip is a little different.

So let’s just acknowledge that most paper is white even today, right?

It’s white. That’s because it’s easier to see black ink on white paper.

And so you can’t really do black ink on red, which is the color of alert and has been for a long time in Western culture.

And so they would make alert messages on pink paper.

And these could take a variety of roles depending on the circumstances.

So you might get a magazine subscription.

Your last issue of the magazine might arrive at your house.

And to indicate that the subscription was expiring, there’d be an insert on pink that says, this is your last issue.

Please renew.

Or you might get a pink slip at elementary school to indicate detention.

And sometimes urgent telegrams were put on pink paper.

But more importantly, as you said, a pink slip might be inserted with your paycheck or in your employee mailbox to indicate that you were hereby terminated and your contract was null and void and your services are no longer required.

So don’t show up on Monday.

Yeah, don’t show up.

That color pink was meant to catch your attention because it would stand out against all the white paper.

Oh, wow.

Okay, that definitely makes sense.

Yeah.

So as early as the very early 1900s. So we’re talking at least 125 years ago.

Okay. So before the race for pink or before pink slips.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So there’s separate origin stories. Definitely.

All right. Well, that’s great. Thank you for shedding some light on this.

I’ll have to go back to my coworker.

Wendy, thank you so much for calling.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

And drive safely out there.

Yes. Thank you.

All right. Bye bye.

Take care.

877-929-9673

Last week I attended a talk by a nature photographer.

And he made a passing reference to type 2 fun.

Do you know what type 2 fun is?

Fun? F-U-N?

Who has the responsibility for assigning types to fun?

Well, I’ll tell you who.

It’s outdoor enthusiasts.

Because outdoor enthusiasts talk about three different types of fun.

There’s type 1 fun, type 2 fun, and type 3 fun.

Now, type 1 fun is something that’s fun.

It’s simply enjoyable while it’s happening.

Okay.

Say you go off with your family for a weekend to a cabin, and you go hiking, and you just have a great time.

You know, s’mores around the campfire.

I can see that one.

Yeah.

Okay, that’s type 1 fun.

Type two fun is fun that’s miserable when it’s happening, but it’s fun in retrospect.

So maybe you’re running a marathon.

Oh, I see.

I was thinking like cars stuck in the mud, but you get covered in mud, but you laugh about it later.

Well, something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’s terrible in the actual experience of it.

But once you get through with it, it’s fine.

I mean, I used to row in races, and when you’re rowing in a race, it feels like just hitting your head with a hammer.

And then once you get out of the boat, you know, five minutes later, you’ve got that adrenaline surging, and you’re just like, when can we do this again?

Oh, no.

Okay, now type three fun is?

Type three fun is never fun.

It’s just bad from beginning to end.

This is Lost in Death Valley.

Yeah, yeah, never coming back.

Okay, gotcha.

Fell into a volcano, that kind of thing.

Oh, yeah.

I don’t know how much fun that would be.

But, you know, something that’s supposed to be fun, and it’s just a disaster from start to finish.

It’s all type 1 fun here.

Call us, 877-929-9673.

Or you can talk to us on WhatsApp.

The phone number’s on our website with all of our past episodes at waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is John McCall. I’m calling from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi, John. Welcome to the show.

Hey, John. What’s up?

Thank you so much.

I have a question about a phrase that my mom and grandmother used quite a bit, and I never thought to ask them where they got it from or really much about it.

But the phrase is, I’ll be John Brown.

The context for it is when they were surprised, usually when someone said something or did something, or they didn’t know how to respond to something someone had said, they would say, well, I’ll be John Brown.

And I know who John Brown is as a historical figure, but I don’t know much about the phrasing.

Yeah, it does come from the name of the historical figure, John Brown.

He was the white abolitionist.

And you may recall that in 1859, John Brown led 21 men in a raid on the federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry, which is now in West Virginia.

And the plan was that they were going to arm people who were enslaved and help them rise up against slavers.

And he was eventually caught and charged with treason and murder and conspiring to rebel.

And he was hanged for that.

You remember that part?

I had no idea that his demise, that he had suffered like that.

I knew he was a staunch abolitionist, but I didn’t know how he died.

Yes, yes. He was condemned to death and he was hanged.

And you know how people will say, well, I’ll be hanged or well, I’ll be damned.

It’s sort of the same idea. I’ll be John Brown.

You know, he was this very well-known figure at this pivotal time right before the Civil War started when people were taking sides.

And he was very much in the public view.

Wow.

I had no idea.

And it is amazing that I only thought about this as I started to use it and didn’t realize it.

I had just picked it up and then I thought, well, I don’t know the origin of this.

Although I did know a little bit about the historical figure.

But she would always use it when she was surprised by something.

And I didn’t know if that or she particularly use it if someone had made a comment and she didn’t know exactly what to say in return.

It was just kind of a way to transition the conversation.

And so that’s very good to know.

John, thank you so much for calling.

Well, thank you very much.

I am so grateful to be able to talk to both of you.

You all make the world a better place just by being on the radio, and I’m grateful.

We appreciate it.

Thanks for the kind words.

Take care of yourself.

Call us again sometime, John.

Bye-bye.

I’ll certainly do it.

Bye-bye.

What’s the word or phrase that your family uses that all of a sudden you’re curious about, just like John?

Give us a call, 877-929-9673, or send us an email.

That address is words@waywordradio.org.

Hi, you have A Way with Words.

Hi.

This is Nancy Starr from Omaha, Nebraska.

Hey, Nancy, welcome.

What’s on your mind today?

I’ve lived in Omaha for a little over 30 years, and there’s a pronunciation of a word that I’m curious about.

The word is both, as in either or, or both.

And it seems like there’s an L that gets added to it, so it’s pronounced both around here.

So I wondered where that came from, if it’s a regional thing, if it’s a dialect that’s particular to my city.

I don’t know.

So the word B-O-T-H sounds like it has an L in it, as if it’s spelled B-O-L-T-H.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying.

And I teach middle school, and I have had, not often, but sometimes, kids spell it B-O-L-T-H.

That’s good.

The way.

That’s good evidence that they’re hearing it.

Because one of the interesting things about dialect features just like this one is sometimes the people who have dialect features don’t know that they have them.

And so you’ll say, oh, you say both with an L.

And they’re like, no, I don’t.

You’re like, no, you do.

I’ve said that before.

Do you say it, Nancy?

No, I don’t.

I wasn’t raised around here. So it’s just not part of the way that I speak.

And do people where you’re originally from say it at all?

They say B-O-T-H. B-O-T-H.

No, I grew up near St. Louis.

Okay, that’s where I’m from. But you’d be surprised to hear that now people do sometimes say both near St. Louis.

Okay. Yeah. It’s not exclusive to Omaha. And it’s not exclusive to a particular age group or any part of the country.

About 10% of the population self-reports, that is, they claim that they say it, although the number might be much higher because, as I said, it’s one of those dialect features that people may have without realizing it.

And the reason we know that it’s about 10% of the population says that they say that is because when we first talked about this pronunciation of B-O-T-H, both, on the show, I created a survey and put it online.

How do you say both? Do you say both? B-O-L-T-H. And I have that data and that survey is still running. And it has about 2,500 responses where people include where they consider themselves to be from and where they currently are. And again, it’s very consistent. About 10% repeatedly say that they say it. So it’s not bad data.

And so what that is called is an intrusive L. There are a number of different sounds that we can accidentally make because of the way that we shape our mouths. Either the tongue does something or the lips do something or it’s just the accident because sound A follows sound B or what have you.

A few linguists have looked into this. There’s a linguist, Brian Gick. I think I’ve talked about him on the show before. And he mentions that it’s widespread. And so you will hear it from the northeast in the United States all the way through the Midwest. It’s not as common in the South, but you will hear it. And you will hear it all the way to the West, to California. And it’s not as common in the Northwest.

Maybe we’ll get people listening and they’ll go and they’ll take the survey. So we’ll get more respondents.

Yeah. And we’ll find out if it truly is approximately 10%.

Yeah, yeah. 2,500 is a pretty good sample size, but it’s a little skewed because it’s skewed to our listeners. And so it’s not a true sample of the United States.

Nancy, I’m wondering if any of your students ever write out the word drawing, you know, for drawing with an L in that.

Oh, you know, they really don’t. And I have heard them say it. I have. But they themselves don’t hear them that they’re saying it.

Interesting. Well, we love educators on this show. So thank you very much for educating our people and bringing up the kids to be smart and interested in the world.

Yeah, bring us another field report sometime.

I love calling. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question.

Take care, Nancy. Be well.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

We do indeed love getting calls from educators. What kind of education are you in? Who are you educating? What have you discovered about language? Share it with me and Martha, 877-929-9673, or email words@waywordradio.org.

This show is about language seen through the lens of family, history, and culture. Stick around for more.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it. I’m Grant Barrett. And I’m Martha Barnette.

In 2014, the magazine NEA Arts, which is part of the National Endowment for the Arts, published an issue called The Art of Failure, The Importance of Risk and Experimentation. And it’s a series of interviews with writers and artists and musicians, all sharing insights about the creative process and how they handle the failures that inevitably happen along the way.

And we’ll link to that issue on our website because it’s a really good one. My favorite interview was with the incomparable Toni Morrison. She had some really reassuring thoughts about those times when writers can find themselves failing to achieve what they set out to do.

Morrison said, as a writer, failure is just information. It’s something that I’ve done wrong in writing, or is inaccurate or unclear. I recognize failure, which is important, some people don’t, and fix it because it is data, it is information. Knowledge of what does not work. That’s rewriting and editing. You have to pay very close attention to it rather than get depressed or unnerved or feel ashamed. None of that is useful. And then she goes on to say, think of it like being a musician. It’s like hitting the wrong note. You have to do something else. In a musical score, if you’re singing or you’re playing an instrument on stage in public and you hit a wrong note, you can’t say oops and leave the stage. You have to make something out of that error. Do a really powerfully creative thing. If it’s public, you have to have that ability, that gift to make a mistake look creative. With writing, you can always scratch out the knowledge. You write and erase and do it over.

And Grant, there was something so reassuring about that to me, that we writers do have the luxury of learning from our mistakes in private. I thought it was really helpful and encouraging to hear not only that she’s confronted her own failures and had to work through them, but I think it’s really good advice for life as well.

Right, yeah. Not just writing, that idea of not being flustered and unnerved or disappointed in yourself is so important. And treating as information instead of as aggravation is what lets you be persistent because those emotions get in the way of you trying again and having that sense of, oh, I just need to repeat this so I get better results and try something different this time. And I’ve seen that in my son as he’s been growing up and learning what it means to be persistent. And the persistence is not letting yourself get in the way of yourself when things don’t go well.

I often think about Billie Jean King’s phrase, champions adjust. I think that that’s applicable here. We’d love to hear your thoughts about writing and failure or failure in other situations that you’ve learned from. Give us a call 877-929-9673 or send your stories about language to words@waywordradio.org.

Hey there, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Monica, and I’m calling from Burlington, Vermont.

Oh, hi, Monica. Welcome to the show. What can we do for you?

Well, I’ve been thinking about words like cattywampus and thingamajiggy and sort of silly words like that. And a couple questions.

One is, I’m wondering, is there a sort of a category that these fit into other than just sort of slang? You know, do they have their own category?

And my other question is, what is it about these words that make us understand? We often understand what they mean even without being given a definition. For example, a friend of mine, I believe she made this word up. She says kerfunkulated, so she’ll say, like, oh, my day got all kerfunkulated. And the first time I heard it, I knew exactly what she meant, right? I didn’t have to ask for a definition. I just knew.

So what is it about these words that make them so easily understandable?

That’s interesting. I think I would exclude cattywampus for a moment. Let’s just set that aside for now. What other words would you put in this category?

Like whatchamacallit.

Doohickey?

Doohickey. Perfect word. Yep. Okay, good. Doomaflatchy?

Yeah, things like that.

Okay. The reason I excluded cattywampus is it’s not what we call a placeholder word. And all those other ones are placeholder words. They have an imprecise meaning. They just kind of fill a hole where we’re not quite sure what goes there, but we know something goes there. And usually it’s a noun. And cattywampus actually just means crooked or askew. And so it actually has a solid meaning. And even though it’s an odd word and a weird word and has like one million spellings, it’s got a meaning. And that’s why we understand it.

But those other words, those placeholder words, as linguists call them, those are worth investigating. And that’s a good question. And that’s why I’m interested you asked. There is an astonishingly wonderful book. It’s academic. But if you can find a used copy of it and you’re willing to wade through the academies, it’s rewarding. And it’s by Joanna Chanel, or Channel, C-H-A-N-N-E-L-L. It’s called Vague Language. And this book delves into the intricacies of how and why we use vague expressions.

And what she says in this book is that vague expressions, vague language, are strategic.

They’re not a sign of speaker incompetence, and they’re not a sign of linguistic deficiency.

They’re not necessarily, or maybe never, because you forgot a thing.

They indicate other pragmatic things.

So, for example, they may indicate that we all belong to a certain group, the three of us, you, me, and Martha.

If I say, oh, hand me the Dumaflachi, we all know what I meant because we’ve been in this place before.

We’ve worked together before and you know that I mean microphone or I mean microphone cover or I meant keyboard or whatever it was and so I don’t really have to explain and I’m just kind of showing this kind of group cohesion and and that’s an important thing.

Another thing that they can do is they avoid how should I put this they avoid being specific and sometimes we do want to avoid to being specific.

The author of this book, Joanna Channel, she challenges the notion that it is always desirable to be precise in language.

This is a common mistake from non-linguists who think that it’s always important to be precise.

And what she shows, I think very successfully, is that vagueness is an important part of social interaction and common discourse.

Here’s a really great example.

Everyone knows this example.

If I say to say, Martha Ann Barnette, come over here.

She knows I’m upset, right?

Because I’m very precise.

I use her precise name.

But if I say, Martita, come over here.

I’m using my pet name for her.

It’s a little less precise, right?

We do sometimes call her Martita on the staff.

And I call him Gertie.

Long story.

Long story.

It’s on a past episode.

So it’s a little less precise.

Somebody who doesn’t know us might not understand why I call her Martita or who I’m even talking about.

And then she knows that I’m not angry or I don’t have an issue.

And so this is what’s happening with those placeholder words, like thingamajig or doohickey or doomaflatchy or what have you.

There’s a lot more to say about this.

It’s all in the book.

That’s fascinating.

It’s also more playful.

And like when my friend says that her day was kerfunculated, it doesn’t make her seem really angry about it.

It’s just like, oh, well, got all messed up, you know, but it’s okay.

And it’s expressing so much more.

That is fascinating.

I’m going to have to look up that book.

Yeah, and there’s another book, if you can’t find that one.

And again, that book is Vague Language by Joanna Channell, C-H-A-N-N-E-L-L, published by Oxford University Press in 1984.

There’s another one called Vague Language Explored, which is a collection of essays edited by Joan Cutting, C-U-T-T-I-N-G, which was published by Palgrave Macmillan in 2007, which might be worth looking into.

Monica, thank you for calling.

You take care of yourself, all right?

You too.

Thank you for taking my call.

Yeah.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Great question.

Okay.

Thanks, Monica.

Bye.

Thanks.

Bye.

Well, pick up that thingamajig and give us a call, 877-929-9673.

I just found out that friends of mine are making plans to move to another city where their adult children live in order to be close to the grandkids.

And it occurs to me that we still haven’t come up with a really good term for that.

And I was thinking about what about trailing grandparent?

Isn’t there such a thing as trailing spouses?

Yes, that’s right. When a spouse gets a great job and the other spouse comes along, moves with them to the new city, but doesn’t have a job themselves.

Right, right. What about trailing grandparents?

Trailing grandparents, that could work. But it sounds like they’re following, like, you know, cookie crumb spore across the continent.

Well, they kind of are, probably.

They’re following dropped binkies and blankies and follow the grandkids.

Yeah, I still don’t know what the verb is for that. Maybe it’s just trailing.

We’re trailing our children.

I don’t know.

Well, we’re still taking your recommendations for words to use, verbs particularly, for grandparents who move to be near their grandkids.

877-929-9673.

Email words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Bridget from Massachusetts.

Hi, Bridget from Massachusetts.

How are you doing?

Good.

How are you?

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

What can we do for you?

So I work in communications for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

And as part of my job, I get to write stories about the work we do with partners to conserve wildlife, and that includes birds.

And so at some point, it occurred to me that there seemed to be a lot of, like, proverbs, metaphors, idioms in English that relate to birds.

So, for example, like, early bird catches the worm or, you know, like a duck to water.

And part of the reason it caught my attention is when we’re writing about wildlife conservation, we’re always trying to emphasize why it matters.

So what are the irreplaceable roles that birds and other wildlife play in nature and in culture?

And I thought maybe that should include their role in shaping our language.

So my first question is, one, is it true that birds appear in a lot of sayings and metaphors, or am I just predisposed to notice it because of my work?

And then if it is true, is that also the case in languages other than English?

All right. So, Martha, this is a wonderful question because the answer is yes, right?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Right?

Yes. I keep thinking about writing a whole book on bird words because there are so many birds throughout our language.

I mean, you were talking about metaphors, and I was thinking about the fact that there are so many words that have etymologies that have birds nesting inside of them.

I mean, think about the flower called columbine.

That comes from the Latin word for dove, because that little blossom looks like little doves all sort of huddled together.

The word larkspur, you know, the blossom looks like the spur on the toe of a lark.

And even words like, there are a bunch of anatomical words.

I mean, I’m thinking of coccyx, which is, of course, your tailbone.

But that word comes from the ancient Greek word for cuckoo, the cuckoo bird, because the coccyx resembles the beak.

So I could go on and on about that.

But you also asked about expressions involving birds.

And, of course, we have a lot of those in English.

I’m thinking also of there’s an absolutely gorgeous expression in Spanish, which I think is my favorite of all.

And it has to do with the Spanish word pájaro, which shares a Latin root with the word passerine, you know, which refers to songbirds, passerine.

And this proverb goes, La fe es el pájaro que siente la luz cuando el alba aún está oscura.

And that means faith is the bird that feels the light while the dawn is still dark.

I mean, is there any better proverb for these dark times?

You know how birds, they sense the light coming on when it’s still dark outside, and they just start singing.

They just start doing their thing.

So I think of all the proverbs involving birds, I think that one is my favorite.

So all of this, Martha, basically we could go on until the end of the show with not just birds but other animals, and all of this peruse Bridget.

Hypothesis, which is the essential relationship between animals and humans is eternal, that we have always been a part of their world and they have always been a part of ours.

Those embedded sayings in our language are just one part of that proof.

It isn’t the only proof either.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Are we headed down the right path for you here? Are these helpful?

Absolutely, yeah.

And you kind of got me thinking also, of course, about like music and poetry.

I mean, the amount of like birds that are around.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And then there are terms like, you know, pecking order, which is literally the order in which birds get to eat.

And nest egg, which has to do with putting a wooden egg into the nest to encourage the birds to lay eggs.

And we talk about people’s nose or their mouth being their beak, depending on what point we’re trying to make.

We talk about mothers taking their children under their wing.

I’m going to be thinking about this all day.

I mean, there’s so many of these.

And so many different ways to take this conversation.

Bridget, you can call us every week, and we’ll just take this in a different direction.

How about that?

And now it’s time for Bridget.

Bridget is back again this week.

Sign me up.

All right. Well, Bridget, drop us a line sometime. Let us know what you make of all this.

We appreciate your time and your patience with our blathering.

No, thank you so much for your insights. I really enjoyed this conversation.

All right. Take care of yourself.

Oh, good. You can tweet about it.

All right. Take care.

All right. Bye-bye.

Thank you.

Earlier we were talking about pink slips, and I was reminded that there was a bit of, I don’t know,

A doggerel or a poem or verse that Mark Twain made popular, although he didn’t write it.

It was originally written by a journalist by the name of Noah Brooks in New York in 1875,

But Mark Twain repeated it in The Atlantic magazine,

And it really demonstrates how colored paper has been used as a way of encoding special information for a very long time.

And the verse goes like this.

Conductor, when you receive a fare, punch in the presence of the passenger.

A blue trip slip for an eight cent fare.

A buff trip slip for a six cent fare.

A pink trip slip for a three cent fare.

Punch in the presence of the passenger.

Punch brothers, punch with care.

Punch in the presence of the passenger.

And Mark Twain’s piece in Atlantic is, he says,

The verse took entire possession of me.

All through breakfast, they went waltzing through my brain.

I could not tell whether I’d eaten anything or not.

Basically, it was an earworm.

He talks in whole pieces about how these verses, he could not stop thinking about them.

I was bouncing right along with you there.

He said, I fought hard for an hour, but it was useless.

It’s a very funny Mark Twain piece in his usual dry style.

We’ll link to it on the website.

877-929-9673.

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Special thanks to Michael Breslauer, Josh Eckels, Clare Grotting, Bruce Rogow, Rick Seidenwurm, and Betty Willis.

Thanks for listening. I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett. Until next time, goodbye.

Bye.

Bye.