Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

I've only heard for. I texted 4 people last night, all came back saying through, but were not sure since I had mentioned it.

They're gonna get pwned! 😀

"For" the trees. Seeing the forest "through" the trees doesn't make sense because if you look through the trees, you are looking past the trees to the non-forest area beyond, which is not the forest. You can see the forest through the window, for example, but not through the trees.

However, this is an interesting question. Perhaps we should add a section to our training manual about confused idioms, but this might be putting all our eggs before the horse.

What is the history of this saying?

I have a strong recollection that his saying came from Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man, which came out in 1952. I read this book (begrudgingly) in high school, and I'm pretty sure I remember reading it as well as being informed by my English teacher that this was where the phrase originated. My memory of this book is hazy at best (if not subconsciously blocked), but what vague memory I do have of the entry is that it was dialog between two characters as they traveled by car next to a forest.

I can't seem to find a searchable online excerpt, and frankly I don't have the patience even to scan that book again, so maybe if someone here has that book or is more familiar with it, they can back me up. 🙂

Grant Barrett said:

Yes, it's definitely “You can't see the forest for the trees.” It makes perfect sense because “for” here means “because of” or “due to.” Ask your wife is she knows the saying about “For want of a nail.” It's the same “for.”

Here's the entry for “can't see the forest for the trees” in the Dictionary of Cultural Literacy.

Thanks for the clarification! I've long been confused about this phrase, since, as it's written, I thought it could have the opposite meaning, as in being too focused on the big picture to notice details. It makes much more sense to me now, knowing what the intended meaning of "for" was in this phrase.

yep, you can't see the big picture because the details, the minutiae get in the way, fill up your vision. you can't see the forest because you are standing in the middle of it, with the trees, up close and personal, all around you. so, because "for" means "because of," you "can't see the forest for the trees."

dilettante said
Just came across an alternate version while (or whilst) reading Michael Palin's "Diaries 1969-1979":

"losing sight of the wood for the trees"

Is this version more common in the UK?

I've encountered this twice in the past week, one definitely from England, the other unknown but very possibly UK.

I too have been seeking the correct way to say...."cant see the forest for the trees"......but after analyzing this...it absolutely makes no sense...how can the forest be "for" the trees...?...also using "to the trees"...also makes no sense...how can the forest be "to" the trees...even if you use the presumptive word "being"....then it would read.......cant see the forest "being for" the trees...or saying....cant see the forest "being to" the trees ..still....you can easily see it's nonsensical meaning.....obviously there is something missing here...and/or the arraignment is wrong......now to say...."through the trees"....actually makes a little sense because the presumption of the phrase "by looking" is meant.....which would then look like.....cant see the forest "by looking through" the trees...gives the perception that you are standing within the forest looking at the surrounding trees and the trees beyond it...implying that you are inside of it not seeing that you are in it.....but still using this phrase requires too much presumption.....there are missing words leaving the presumptive idea too ambiguous.......also if you were to say...cant see the forest "by looking at" the trees..would would require presumption that you are already in the forest....but it could also mean that you are outside the forest looking in at the trees at the face of the forest..so that could go either way....it is half right and half wrong.........conclusively..... though I am no english authoritarian.... not even in the least sense of the word....my guess would be.........it appears that the correct phrase should be...considering the inclusion of a presumptive condition that was at first not included in the first 3 phrases used to shorten it.....which I think is why this popular phrase is off the mark and controversial...because one wishes to exclude a few very important conditions.....so clearly...to say.......cant see the forest "from" the trees....or..."from amongst" the trees....or..."being from amongst" the trees....or..."being too close"....or...."by looking at" the trees...though some of these require presumptive conditions....they do seem to make more sense........than the first 3....because part of the presumption is taken away...and part precondition is inserted.....another words....I just changed a few words...or.....I reworded it.....adding a few more words to add more description........