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Words with a "ph" pronounced with a hard "p"
Guest
1
2010/02/20 - 3:51pm

Someone asked a friend of mine to name three English words that are not compound and also have "ph" in them, pronounced with a hard 'p'. We were able to come up with "shepherd" and "haphazard." Does anyone know of a third? Maybe there are only two, and it was a mean puzzle... or maybe there are a lot, and we just can't think of them.

Guest
2
2010/02/20 - 4:30pm

Your friend must be a poophead to uphold the loophole that the answer can't be a compound. I asked uphill and downhill, and looked around every flophouse and through every peephole.

Finally, I came to rest in my upholstered chair, and took a nap.

Guest
3
2010/02/20 - 4:32pm

"... that are not compound." Though I guess upholstered is a good example. Thanks.

Guest
4
2010/02/20 - 4:34pm

Yep. I understood the condition. You're welcome.

I suggest you be equally tricky and say you found at least 16. Challenge him or her to find them.

upholster, upholstery, upholsteries, upholsterer, upholsterers, upholstering, upholstered, upholsters, shepherd, shepherdess, shepherding, shepherded, shepherds, shepherdesses, haphazard, haphazardly

I see no rule about inflected forms.

Guest
5
2010/02/20 - 6:09pm

Why not throw in PhD as an answer. If he or she balks, ask them to pronounce it without a hard p. And it most certainly is NOT a compound.

So. Just for fun, no tricky limitations (shepherd could theoretically be considered a compound when you consider the etymology, as could upholstery), let's just come up with words containing ph, sh, th, ch where they are not pronounced as the common digraph.

Hiphop
chimera
mishap
pothead or $#!+head

and lots of others. Any favorites?

Ron Draney
721 Posts
(Offline)
6
2010/02/21 - 5:11pm

In his autobiography, Dick Cavett mentions growing up near a family named "Outhouse". He says they pronounced it "O'Thoosey".

Guest
7
2010/02/25 - 7:03am

I'd guess that haphazard started life as a compound, too.

Flophouse
clotheshorse

Guest
8
2010/02/27 - 4:01pm

In words like "haphazard" and "shepherd," there is no "ph" digraph as the "p" and the "h" occur in separate morphemes. Their juxtaposition in such a case is coincidental.

Most English speakers show a strong instinct to reduce successive digraphs to the phoneme suggested by the first letter of the pair. This results in "ph" commonly being pronounced as "p" in certain words of Greek origin where the digraph "th" closely or immediately follows the "ph." I would argue that these are really just wide-spread mispronunciations, but phoneticists of a more descriptive bent might disagree: "amphitheater" vs. "ampitheater," "ophthalmologist" vs. "opthalmologist," "diphtheria" vs. "diptheria," etc.

Guest
9
2010/02/27 - 4:26pm

lux rationis said:
Most English speakers show a strong instinct to reduce successive digraphs to the phoneme suggested by the first letter of the pair. This results in "ph" commonly being pronounced as "p" in certain words of Greek origin where the digraph "th" closely or immediately follows the "ph." I would argue that these are really just wide-spread mispronunciations, but phoneticists of a more descriptive bent might disagree: "amphitheater" vs. "ampitheater," "ophthalmologist" vs. "opthalmologist," "diphtheria" vs. "diptheria," etc.


This is a great point. I've even heard some pronounce ophthalmologist as /aptəmɑlədʒɪst/, reducing both the -ph- and the -th- to -pt-, although I suspect also a strong association with the optic prefix.

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
10
2010/02/27 - 4:38pm

Of the three examples:

"amphitheater" vs. "ampitheater," "ophthalmologist" vs. "opthalmologist," "diphtheria" vs. "diptheria," etc.

I only use the hard "p" in "diptheria". In the others, I use the "ph" sound.

Emmett

Guest
11
2010/03/01 - 2:52pm

Glenn said: I've even heard some pronounce ophthalmologist as /aptəmɑlədʒɪst/, reducing both the -ph- and the -th- to -pt-, although I suspect also a strong association with the optic prefix.


And considering how Φ and Θ were pronounced in Classical Greek (before 300 B.C.E.), this kind or pronunciation seems eerily reconstructionist. Our love of retaining redundant spellings for the same phonemes in English leads to this need to dissimilate. Since "ph" and "th" are both fricatives in Modern English, most people want to change one — or both — to something that provides for greater aural contrast (in this case, bilabial and dental plosives, which ends up being closer to the original Greek).

This kind of phonemic dissimilation is hard-wired into the development of many other languages. Those such as Spanish that simply romanized Greek phonemes made it easy for the speaker: anfiteatro, oftalmólogo, difteria.

Ron Draney
721 Posts
(Offline)
12
2010/03/02 - 2:15am

The one that always gets me when I see it on a sign is "Quiropractico".

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