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I think it may just be me, but I am bothered by the construction "Verify if..." Why? Because "verify" implies that you already have an idea, and "if" doesn't convey that implication (to me).
When editing translations from Japanese for vehicle workshop manuals, I have made this my standard, but I am curious if anyone else feels the way I do?
I think you have not given enough information about this. I don't think "verify" implies anything other than it's definition which is to make certain that what you believe to be correct is in fact correct. Is the construction of which you are speaking asking you to verify something to yourself or to verify it to the sender? I can think of many ways these two words may be used together. I have occasionally noticed someone using the word "verify" when they actually mean "confirm."
I may be jumping to conclusions, here, but I think the problem isn't "verify", it's "if". Let's say the sentence in the manual is "Verify if part # 43-A is available and there are two of them". Apparently it's critical that there be two 43-As in the package; if so, they mean not "if" but "Verify that part #43-A is available and that there are two of them." On the other hand let's say the sentence is "Verify if you have model # 13 or model # 13-A; if you have model #13, use the 3-inch bolt, but if #13-A use the 3 ½-inch bolt". In that case you don't need to verify that you have one model or the other, you need to verify whether you have one model or the other; change the first "if" to "whether".
My apologies if I haven't given enough information. I know that it is not incorrect to say "verify if/whether" (whether falls into the same category to me...), but it seems counterproductive. Let me explain.
The projects in question are Japanese repair manuals being translated into English, so (as far as I can tell) everything could be rephrased as "It should be this way. Make sure it is so." Thus, a sentence such as "Verify (that/if/whether) the oil is filled to the MAX level." should convey that what comes after "verify" is critical. By putting in "if" or "whether," it seems to give the impression that it could go either way (not that the state of the oil level could be either way, but that the necessity could go either way).
Now, for this sentence: "Verify if you have model # 13 or model # 13-A; if you have model #13, use the 3-inch bolt, but if #13-A use the 3 ½-inch bolt". This structure is what is bothering me, and the reason is that there is no "making certain that what you believe to be correct is in fact correct." Instead, I would change this to "Check whether you have...", whose structure implies that it could be either #13 or #13-A. To me, "Verify" would call for an assumption to follow, while "Check" leaves the door open.
Another point that bothers me about the "Verify if" construction is the ambiguity; "Verify if you have model #13 or #13-A" could be misread as "Verify (something else) in the case that you have #13 or #13-A." Yet, this borders on over-thinking, I fear.
Likely I am over-thinking the whole issue, but as it is a translation, and a misleading translation could result in serious injury to the mechanics, I want to be as clear and precise as possible.
Sounds like we don't so much disagree as get our teeth set on edge by different things. I see your point about "verify", but it doesn't bother me much. On the other hand, I agree with you that "verify if..." could be taken to mean—indeed, literally should be taken to mean—"if [such and such is the case then] verify ..." THAT bothers me; I insist on the distinction between "if" and "whether", though I realize not everyone does.
So I would never say "verify if...", but for me I don't care much that "verify" isn't precisely the right word (even though I see what you're saying); I would make it "verify whether..." or "verify that...".
Hmm... Ok, I do see that "find out whether..." might be better than "verify whether...". But it's by a slight enough margin that it doesn't make my teeth itch, and if I were proofreading another's work, I probably wouldn't bother correcting that.
Thank you, Bob, for your reply. I think I might be acting the stickler on this one, but since I am limited in the amount of rewording, I will continue using "that" or "Check whether." I appreciate your input, though, and it is nice to know I am not completely insane (only slightly insane is acceptable, of course).
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man demands that his environment adapt to him. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." That's from memory, but something very like it was attributed to George Bernard Shaw, if I'm not mistaken. "Slightly insane", therefore, can be a good thing—and it very likely applies to everyone who cares enough about words to post here.
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
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