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Nice show, "Jump Steady", out today, and I believe it's not a rebroadcast.
I was intrigued by Grant and Martha discussing third wheel and fifth wheel, because there was no mention of the fifth wheel of a semi. It's where the trailer attaches to the power unit, and it's parallel to the ground, pretty much, unlike the wheels that contact the pavement.
Surely this is the most common use of fifth wheel, I thought. When I ngrammed the two, however, I found that third wheel predates fifth wheel by a considerable amount of time. Grant says fifth wheel comers first.
There are a lot of fifth wheel patents in the latter half of the 18th century:
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In 1869, Henry Llewellyn Williams published a comedy in Three Parts called "The Fifth Wheel" which probably is more aligned with the caller's question.
The Modern Husbandman, however, talks about a drill in which a third-wheel, (as opposed to the wheels which support the drill) is used to meter the seed as it is planted. There are earlier references to a third-wheel in watch and clock journals, but I doubt their jargon was well-known in the general population, while farm families were the general population, and borrowing their jargon for other "seed-planting" activities would be easily understood. (The reason for pairing off in social activities isn't primarily for playing chess or gin rummy, after all.)
In the early 1800s, there were poetic uses of "third wheel" of a cart, such as in 1827's The Casket, Or, Flowers of Literature, Wit & Sentiment. Bicycles were a new invention when Wilbur and Orville opened the Wright Cycle Shop about 1900, but the notion of a "third wheel" didn't wait for the invention of the bicycle.
I agree with the fifth/third conclusion Grant offered, but I'd be more likely to say "odd man out" than either third or fifth wheel.
Ngram also has something to say about "hear hear" versus "here here". It seems that "hear" was only the more popular of the two around 1910 and 1930, with "here" the far more popular version most years since the 1700s. It's not a term that makes a lot of sense to me either way. Sorta like saying "harrumph!"
deaconB said: Ngram also has something to say about “hear hear” versus “here here”. It seems that “hear” was only the more popular of the two around 1910 and 1930, with “here” the far more popular version most years since the 1700s. It’s not a term that makes a lot of sense to me either way. Sorta like saying “harrumph!”
For whatever reason, I always assumed it was "here here" as in "look and listen here" for an implied imperative. But now that you mention it "hear hear" makes a lot of sense too. Still, not surprised that "here here" had more hits on Ngrams. Then it occurred to me that "hear here" and (to a lesser extent) "here hear" might also makes sense. So I ran an Ngram on all four variations. What I got was this.
As of 2000, the variations rank as follows (skipping the leading six zeros):
here here: 9742%
hear here: 6137% (though that has a lot of usage not in the imperative, eg., "What did you hear here?")
hear hear: 3618%
here hear: 2023%
Not sure if you were asking a question, but there's an interesting discussion about that here here. Seems to agree with my take. Provides some etymology.
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
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