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Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

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possessive, my name, and KITT
Guest
1
2008/02/18 - 2:37pm

Over the past several years, I've noticed that people drop the final s in making my name and others like it possessive. It used to be James's schedule or Chris's computer, and it was pronounced and spelled that way. Now it seems most people write James' or Chris', as in James' schedule. (In fact, typing this out in Firefox, James's develops a red underline, while Chris's does not.) Is this the way things ought to be now? Has the possessive evolved?

If it has, how is it pronounced? Originally, when that s was first being dropped, James's was still being said. Within the past couple of years, it seems people are stumbling with this, and mostly pronouncing it without the final s.

Last night, on the Knight Rider movie, Val Kilmer as KITT referred to something attributed to a character named Charles, not pronouncing it "Charles's" but "Charles". Is this the harbinger of the death of 's?

Guest
2
2008/03/03 - 5:58pm

This one is widely debated. Some say any pronoun that ends with an "s" should have only the trailing apostrophe when it is made possessive. Some say only plural pronouns (which end with an "s" due to being pluralized) should have the trailing apostrophe without the second "s". Some just say we should keep it simple and just always add the apostrophe and the "s". Some are in that last group, but make various exceptions, such as historically significant figures like "Jesus'" and the like.

Here's what Strunk and White have to say about it...
http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html
...though their opinion is not always as highly regarded as perhaps it once was.

Personally, growing up in Sunday School, it really stuck out to me when reading or listening to stories that it was always "Jesus' disciples," for example, in both written and spoken form. I guess I just assumed--and it made sense to me to do so--that if the word ended in "s", you always left off the last "s" so it wouldn't sound so awkward.

Since then, I've come across people who spell it without the final "s" but pronounce it as though it was there. I definitely can't get on board there...what's the point of making an exception to the rule if you're just going to pronounce it awkwardly anyway, even though that is ostensibly the reason for making the exception in the first place?

I think the closest thing to a definitive ruling I've heard is that you only do it for plural pronouns, with the exceptions of "Jesus" and "Moses" and such. I can't remember where I heard that, however. I think Grant and Martha may have covered it, actually, but I'm not sure in which episode it would have been. Either way, I'm all for pronouncing it as though the extra "s" isn't attached.

Guest
3
2008/03/06 - 6:34am

I'm familiar with—and prefer—the rule you mentioned at the end: adding the s to plural proper nouns, except for Socrates, Jesus, Moses, and such. (Like you, I'm familiar with phrases such as "in Jesus' name", etc.)

I guess what I'm asking is: is this the way this part of the language is going? And, more importantly, should I stop correcting my wife (I didn't want to bring this up, but she has refused to, and promised to continue to refuse to, insert the s after the apostrophe after my first name, either on paper or in voice)?

Guest
4
2008/03/06 - 7:59am

Well I would say yes, stop correcting her, but that's only because I do the same thing as she does. 🙂

As far as whether it is officially correct or not, I'm really not sure.

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