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Wikipedia reports "the state of Tennessee is geographically and constitutionally divided into three Grand Divisions: East Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, and West Tennessee." Highway signs used to say "Welcome to the three states of Tennessee." A few years ago the decision was made to de-emphasize the three states idea in the interest of unity. (None of this takes into account "upper East Tennessee" another well known division.)
mclarevds said:
Grant Barrett said:
Big o'clock (8:19),
Isn't that 8:16?
Think lowercase "g".
By the way, on last weekend's episode of "The Simpsons", Moe mentions in a voiceover that he moved to Springfield "because the zip code spells 'boobs' on a calculator". Since 80085 is not a zip code currently in use, I can only assume he meant upside-down on a calculator, which would make Springfield identical with Barney, North Dakota (58008).
wordelf said:
Like death eating a cracker:
Two other phrases come to mind, similar in that they involve food and death, but different in that in these expressions, death is not the eater but the eaten:
1. "You look like death warmed over."
2. "How do you feel?" "Like death on toast."I agree with Elysia that these phrases connote queasiness, or that strange, hollow feeling your stomach may get when you have been deprived of sleep. #2 was a pretty common expression at Valparaiso U. in Indiana when I was there (6 years ago) between people commiserating about staying up way too late writing papers. "Death warmed over" just sounds nauseous-- at least, it makes me think of someone using the iffy leftovers that have been languishing in the fridge; by analogy, the person you say this to looks like he or she is but tenuously alive, or like a walking stiff.
I've always been fond of the expletive "Christ on a Biscuit!", though I have no idea where I picked it up.
iancorey said:
Quixotic, referring to the bumbling, unpredictable and often times relentless manner of Don Quixote was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the call about "quixibar."
Interesting, I never even thought about that. I convinced myself it was a family thing that I didn't think much about literary influences. Thanks for the suggestion. (I'm the caller btw).
Grant Barrett said:
A Dallas listener is struck by the fact that Texans talk about East Texas, North Texas, South Texas, and West Texas. So why, she wonders, do people in other states say things like Southern Indiana and Northern California?
Here in Georgia it's always "North Georgia", "South Georgia", etc. We would never say "northern Georgia" or "southern Georgia". In this case the "north" and "south" do imply specific *kinds* of places. When we say "North Georgia", it often means "up there in the mountains", as in, "They're going camping in North Georgia somewhere," or, "They have a cabin in North Georgia". On the other hand, "South Georgia" conjures images of lots of flat, empty space, and lots of pecan trees. Not sure that the west and east parts of the state are so distinctive, but we definitely say "West Georgia". There's even a "West Georgia College".
So, why is Northern California actually in central California? San Francisco, commonly considered Northern California, is about 400+ miles from the Northern border of the state.
John Greene said:
Grant Barrett said:
A Dallas listener is struck by the fact that Texans talk about East Texas, North Texas, South Texas, and West Texas. So why, she wonders, do people in other states say things like Southern Indiana and Northern California?
Here in Georgia it's always "North Georgia", "South Georgia", etc. We would never say "northern Georgia" or "southern Georgia". In this case the "north" and "south" do imply specific *kinds* of places. When we say "North Georgia", it often means "up there in the mountains", as in, "They're going camping in North Georgia somewhere," or, "They have a cabin in North Georgia". On the other hand, "South Georgia" conjures images of lots of flat, empty space, and lots of pecan trees. Not sure that the west and east parts of the state are so distinctive, but we definitely say "West Georgia". There's even a "West Georgia College".
camelsamba said:
John Herzog said:
Grant Barrett said:
A Dallas listener is struck by the fact that Texans talk about East Texas, North Texas, South Texas, and West Texas. So why, she wonders, do people in other states say things like Southern Indiana and Northern California?
There are actually five areas of Texas: North Texas, East Texas, West Texas, South Texas, and Central Texas. They are usually described by the cities in the areas, but do also to the geography of the regions.
Is Houston in East Texas or South Texas? Or is it just it's own region?
Anyway, the caller mentioned northern and southern New Mexico. I grew up in Roswell, in southeastern New Mexico, home to the Eastern New Mexico Regional Fair (and we got out of school every year for the parade on the first day).
But now I live in Southeast Michigan (not southeastern). We have a regional authority called the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments. And the other side of the state is referred to as West Michigan - not western Michigan. But head north? Then you end up in Northern Michigan (which - as far as I can figure out, but I'm not a native - usually refers to the northern lower peninsula, not the upper peninsula). I've never heard the phrase North Michigan!
Not sure how this fits into the rule of thumb Martha and Grant gave on the show, but it's a data point for consideration. :^)
Houston is in East Texas.
Michael said:
iancorey said:
Quixotic, referring to the bumbling, unpredictable and often times relentless manner of Don Quixote was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the call about "quixibar."
Interesting, I never even thought about that. I convinced myself it was a family thing that I didn't think much about literary influences. Thanks for the suggestion. (I'm the caller btw).
IMHO, "That's a quixibar" is just a fun (probably intentional) variation of "That's a question mark", which is just another way to say "I don't have an answer for that"
mullenfam said:
...I wonder if the idea of "turfing a patient" is more about moving a patient to another doctor's territory, more than it is a link to the ancient ideas of landing or kicking out.
No such conspiracy.
My medical colleague (or her husband) mistakenly interprets her usage of the term. It simply comes from the initialism cum acronym, "TRF" (and phoneticaly pronounced as "turf"), which of course is short for transfer or transferred, eg, patient TRF to a medical floor, or, TRF to the care of another doc, etc.
Just catching up on older episodes ... love the podcast, thanks!
/p.
I imagine that among poor folk in the past, crackers were dry, hard things. The way I've eaten a dry, hard cracker is to hold it between my teeth for a minute, allowing moist breath and saliva to soften it before biting off a piece. Thus, clenched teeth (common among the dying) plus a drawn, pale face would amount to a skull-like appearance. A body walking backwards would mimic a body being lowered into a grave.
Jennifer said:
I was really interested in the discussion of a gogo. I was wondering if there was a possibility of a relationship with the instrument "agogo." This is a West African instrument that spread through slavery to the New World, especially Brazil. It retains its name in several former colonies of Portugal, Spain, Britain, and France. It's used to this day in the big carnival celebrations in Brazil and throughout the Caribbean. It is two bells connected by a u-shaped wire and played with a stick.
The reason this connection came to mind is related to the album by the jazz musician Stan Getz. It was recorded at the Cafe Au Go Go in Greenwich Village and also featured the Brazilian singer Astrud Gilberto. The music they were playing is bossa nova, which is based on Brazilian carnival samba.
When Grant mentioned the idea that there is a "festival" connotation to "Ã gogo" in French, my thought immediately went to carnival, originally a European celebration.
Does anyone think that there might be a relationship or a modern reinforcement of connotations between these words or is this just a coincidence?
By the way, it's no surprise that the name of a French club (or gogo dancers) would become popular in the US in the 60s and 70s. This is exactly when clubs modeled on the French "discothèques" led to the creation of "disco" clubs and music in the US.
This is one of those really interesting historical "things" that I love. In 1941, the SS Politician left Liverpool bound for Jamaica, and sank off the Outer Hebrides, Scotland. The ship was loaded with 250,000 bottles of whiskey, and the locals took upon themselves the task of liberating as many as possible before the authorities arrived. In 1947 Compton MacKenzie wrote a novel based on that event, called "Whiskey Galore". In 1949 the novel was made into a film by the same name (but released in the US as "A Tight Little Island"). When the film reached France, the title was translated as "Whiskey A Go-go". Someone decided to open a bar by that name, which later became the first of the "discotheques" (as they say in France). The owner later hired girls to demonstrate the latest dance steps, and so we now have "Go-go girls".
Vive la France!
wordelf said:
Like death eating a cracker:
Two other phrases come to mind, similar in that they involve food and death, but different in that in these expressions, death is not the eater but the eaten:
1. "You look like death warmed over."
2. "How do you feel?" "Like death on toast."I agree with Elysia that these phrases connote queasiness, or that strange, hollow feeling your stomach may get when you have been deprived of sleep. #2 was a pretty common expression at Valparaiso U. in Indiana when I was there (6 years ago) between people commiserating about staying up way too late writing papers. "Death warmed over" just sounds nauseous-- at least, it makes me think of someone using the iffy leftovers that have been languishing in the fridge; by analogy, the person you say this to looks like he or she is but tenuously alive, or like a walking stiff.
I disagree. It was mentioned on the show that the expression first appears in 1962.
I believe it has to do with the Cuban missile crisis in 1962. People were instructed to stock up on survival items in case of a possible nuclear attack. One of the popular items many people stocked up on was biscuits (or crackers) because of their long shelf life.
That is how NABISCO (National Biscuit Company) got national exposure.
Therefore the expression implies that you are looking so bad as if "death" itself is barely surviving (since death has resorted to eating the survival rations).
Just my thoughts.. Thanks.
spaltor said:
Grant Barrett said:
A Dallas listener is struck by the fact that Texans talk about East Texas, North Texas, South Texas, and West Texas. So why, she wonders, do people in other states say things like Southern Indiana and Northern California?
Along with the other states mentioned, this construction is also used in New Jersey. North Jersey, Central Jersey, and South Jersey are all specific regions. It's not "northern Jersey", and definitely not "North New Jersey."
Being from South Louisiana, I can definitely tell you that nobody uses the term Southern Louisiana. It's South Louisiana, almost as if it is a state separate from North Louisiana. The cultures of the two places are so very different (Cajun vs. Bible Belt), that I find that I mentally separate the state into 2 distinct regions.
mullenfam said:
In the same episode, there was a discussion of "turf" as in "turfing a patient to another physician." I'm not sure I buy the "turf out" explanation given by the hosts given the context. In the same medical context, there is often a discussion of "turf" with the sense of "territory." Radiologists, for example, claim medical imaging as their "turf." And there are often long battles over who owns the domain as new specialties take on the tools of their trade. Who owns a the patient's cholesterol level, is that the Primary Care Doc's or the Cardiologist's turf?
Given that common usage, I wonder if the idea of "turfing a patient" is more about moving a patient to another doctor's territory, more than it is a link to the ancient ideas of landing or kicking out.
In my experience, you're right. When I was in my residency training, residents talked about "turfing" a patient when they/we wanted to move them to another specialist's service. There was sometimes a bit of the "let's get rid of this guy" attitude in there, but usually it was an appropriate move. For example, if I was on the surgery service and the surgery was complete, but the patient still needed management of their medical (non-surgical) problems, we might "turf" them to the internal medicine service. I also heard the phrase "buff and turf" for getting the patient as healthy as possible on one service and then transferring them to another. I figured that meant like buffing silverware or a copper pot, shining it up so that it at least looks nice. I don't use either expression anymore, because I do find them a bit offensive.
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