Home » Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

Discussion Forum (Archived)

Please consider registering
Guest
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
The forums are currently locked and only available for read only access
sp_TopicIcon
Holes in the ground and donkeys
Guest
1
2010/10/28 - 2:45pm

Hey, Grant and Martha! (And other devotees, of course.)

I recently heard someone say "You don't know a burro from a burrow."

Of course, it immediately caused me to wonder if the phrase "You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground" came from that or vice versa.

And who better to ask than A Way With Words?

Guest
2
2010/10/28 - 5:44pm

I don't know either, but I find the parallel fascinating. Parallels, rather.

Guest
3
2010/10/29 - 3:52am

The burro / burrow observation is an innovation — a brilliant one — rather than the origin. It is most brilliantly realized in the old UPI Stylebook.

burro, burrow   A burro is an ass.   A burrow is a hole in the ground.   As a journalist you are expected to know the difference.
United Press International Stylebook (1977, p29)

This delightful association has been pointed out in several accessible venues, including one by Roy Blount Jr. ("Is the Pope Capitalized?", in his 1982 collection One Fell Soup, Or, I'm Just a Bug on the Windshield of Life, p. 84). The UPI Stylebook has dropped the perfectly faceted diamond third sentence, as you can see here:
UPIU letter B
It is no wonder that they continue to exercise their artistic license to omit borough from the discussion.

The expression is older than that (since 1950, with variants much earlier, according to The Dictionary of American Regional English, Harvard, Ed. Frederic Cassidy), and has many, many variations that have nothing to do with burro or burrow.

NOTE: I haven't verified this info in the primary sources yet, but got all of it from credible online secondary sources (while commuting).

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
4
2010/10/29 - 9:37am

I can personally attest that the ass expression was used in the 1960's.

The innovation makes me want to change a list I helped generate in graduate school; role-playing games, Dungeons and Dragons, Swords and Sorcerers, etc., prompted us to generate a pair for each letter in the alphabet. The pair needed a place (preferably, underground) or inannimate object and something alive (at least in its world). Anthills and Aardvarks started the list. Culverts and Chickens could help promote safety in crossing the road. Xanadu and Xantippes came only after consulting a dictionary. Now, Bunnies and Burrows might need to be replaced with Burros and Burrows.

Emmett

Guest
5
2010/10/29 - 9:40am

Emmett, could we persuade you to share that entire list? 🙂

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
6
2010/10/29 - 12:10pm

Persuasion is not the problem--memory is. It was over 25 years ago and I think we only wrote it on the chalkboard.

But, since it only took two graduate students a few days, surely this community could create its own. If you want to suggest a pair or part thereof, remember, something alive paired with a place or inanimate object (fictional things allowed). And, if you can suggest an alternative to one already listed, please do so. I will start with what I remember which is not much more than already posted:

Anthills and Aardvarks
Burros and Burrows OR Bunnies and Burrows
Chickens and Culverts
Dungeons and Dragons
...
Grasslands and Gnus (I don't think this was in the original list. It would be better with a silent g place.)
...
Quito and Queens
...
Swords and Sorcerers (I think we also had an alternate pair here.)
...
Xanadu and Xantippes
? and Yaks
Zambonies? and Zebras

Please contribute.

Emmett

Guest
7
2010/10/29 - 12:18pm

Grasslands and Gryphons/Griffins?

Eyries and Eagles is too easy...maybe.

Quito and Quetzels might work better...the "qu" is a 'k' in both words...

Your game as grad students sounds more..."wholesome" than the one my cousin and I came up with, where not only did we change the name from Dungeons and Dragons to "D*ld*es and Diaphragms," but all the stats and character types as well.

What can I say? We were 16 and male. 🙂

Ron Draney
721 Posts
(Offline)
8
2010/10/29 - 1:22pm

A Bobby Sherman song has one of your missing entries covered: Turtles and Trees.

Guest
9
2010/10/29 - 1:28pm

Given my 'name' and (newly uploaded) avatar, I must suggest:

Savannas and Snakes

And since I used Savanna, I'll include: Veldts and Vicuñas.

Guest
10
2010/10/29 - 2:13pm

Wallabies and Watersheds? Does it have to be a location / geographical feature? Or would Wallabies and Wingnuts do?

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
11
2010/11/04 - 8:58am

Glenn said:

Wallabies and Watersheds? Does it have to be a location / geographical feature? Or would Wallabies and Wingnuts do?


I do not really want to be judge and jury on this, but things are allowed, e.g. Swords and Sorcerers. I just cannot get my head around how Wallibies and Wingnuts would relate in a role playing game 😕 Anyway, here is the list up to now:

Anthills and Aardvarks
Burros and Burrows OR Bunnies and Burrows
Chickens and Culverts
Dungeons and Dragons
Eyries and Eagles (I can handle easy.)
…
Grasslands and Gnus OR Grasslands and Gryphons/Griffins?
…
Quito and Queens OR Quito and Quetzels (and it has a New World flair.)
…
Swords and Sorcerers OR Savannas and Snakes
Turtles and Trees
(I just partially remembered) Unicorns and ?
Veldts and Vicuñas (I like this one.)
Wallibies and Watersheds OR Wallibies and Wingnuts
Xanadu and Xantippes
? and Yaks
Zambonies? and Zebras

Keep them coming.

Emmett

Guest
12
2010/11/05 - 5:40am

I'm beginning to prefer my instinctive first choice for W: Wombats and Wetlands

Guest
13
2010/11/05 - 8:26am

An alternative 'A': Angels and Architectures

(Thanks, Paul Simon)

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
14
2010/11/07 - 7:21pm

Updated List:

Anthills and Aardvarks OR Angels and Architectures OR Angels and Atriums
Burros and Burrows OR Bunnies and Burrows
Chickens and Culverts
Dungeons and Dragons
Eyries and Eagles
…
Grasslands and Gnus OR Grasslands and Gryphons/Griffins?
…
Jaguars and Jungles
…
Quito and Queens OR Quito and Quetzels
Reindeer and Rooftops (Santa Claus is coming to town.)
Swords and Sorcerers OR Savannas and Snakes OR Snakes and Sewers
Turtles and Trees
Unicorns and ?
Veldts and Vicuñas
Wallibies and Watersheds OR Wallibies and Wingnuts OR Wombats and Wetlands
Xanadu and Xantippes
? and Yaks
Zambonies? and Zebras

We are getting closer to filling the alphabet.

Emmett

Ron Draney
721 Posts
(Offline)
15
2010/11/07 - 10:43pm

Grabbing the ones starting with vowels, because people seem to be steering clear of those:

Infirmaries and Iguanas
Ocelots and Ossuaries

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
16
2010/11/11 - 7:45pm

Anthills and Aardvarks OR Angels and Architectures OR Angels and Atriums
Burros and Burrows OR Bunnies and Burrows
Chickens and Culverts
Dungeons and Dragons
Eyries and Eagles
…
Grasslands and Gnus OR Grasslands and Gryphons/Griffins?
…
Infirmaries and Iguanas
Jaguars and Jungles
…
Leprechauns and Labyrinths
…
Ocelots and Ossuaries
…
Quito and Queens OR Quito and Quetzels
Reindeer and Rooftops
Swords and Sorcerers OR Savannas and Snakes OR Snakes and Sewers (This was prompted by someone asking what was the longest snake. I have one about 50 ft.)
Turtles and Trees
Unicorns and ?
Veldts and Vicuñas
Wallibies and Watersheds OR Wallibies and Wingnuts OR Wombats and Wetlands
Xanadu and Xantippes
? and Yaks
Zambonies? and Zebras

Almost there.

Guest
17
2010/12/01 - 7:35pm

Yaks and yurts?
Ferrets and furrows?
Gremlins and grottos?

Forum Timezone: UTC -7
Show Stats
Administrators:
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Moderators:
Grant Barrett
Top Posters:
Newest Members:
A Conversation with Dr Astein Osei
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 1
Topics: 3647
Posts: 18912

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 618
Members: 1268
Moderators: 1
Admins: 2
Most Users Ever Online: 1147
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 92
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Recent posts