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hoi polloi
Guest
1
2010/05/16 - 10:39am

This one is for Martha. I've heard and read recently in an Atlantic article (they should know better!) this misuse of the word "hoi polloi" to mean the wealthy or upper crust of society. Of course, it means exactly the opposite since it is translated almost directly from Greek and means "the many" so it refers to the common folk. My question is this word morphing or are these people just ignorant?! My guess is that they are confusing this with "hoity-toity".

Guest
2
2010/05/16 - 4:21pm

So it means the poor and not the rich ? Thanks.

Guest
3
2010/05/22 - 7:45am

Not really the poor, just the common people. I'm reading "The Corrections" by Jonathon Franzen and he uses it correctly.

Guest
4
2010/05/22 - 9:15pm

so it would be like if there were 20 people vs 5 people the 20 people would be the hoi polli or would it mean the people that make just enough to get by lol ?

Guest
5
2010/05/23 - 8:37am

It depends if the 20 are common folk or not, not necessarily that they are in the majority. If they are 20 CEOs being waited on by 5 country club staff members, it doesn't mean they are hoi polloi.

Guest
6
2010/05/23 - 3:26pm

explain please.

Guest
7
2010/05/23 - 6:49pm

thewordlover said:

explain please.


I suppose it's just possible that the author was being literal... Or maybe it was a protest against the elitist sentiment of the English use of hoi polloi... At any rate, see here.

Guest
8
2010/06/07 - 2:27pm

A few weeks ago I heard the term "hoi polloi" used on the radio show "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." I looked it up and found two conflicting definitions in Merriam-Webster:

1) Ordinary people : the general populace : mulitude, masses
2) people of distinction or wealth or elevated social status : elite

Apparently, misuse of the word is common enough to legitimize the "wrong" definition. I agree with Kulturvultur's guess as to the cause. I think it's just too high-falutin' to sound like something that means "common," so people assume it means the opposite.

In my opinion, such conflicting definitions renders the word useless. To use it clearly, you have to pad your sentence with supporting context, which is more work than it's worth.

Guest
9
2010/07/01 - 6:54pm

An arena full of hockey fans would be referred to as the hoi polloi. An equal number of people at an opera performance would be reffered to as hoity toity. A large group is more likely to be hoi polloi relative to their majority in overall population. The wealthiest are always the the smallest sector. The generalization is that any large group would be hoi polloi, but that is not always true. There could be a pool hall across the street from a five star hotel. The snob factor makes the determination.

Guest
10
2012/02/28 - 12:21am

I suppose it's impossible to make this minor correction felt to an English speaker, but after two years of classical Greek in college (I started out as a Religion major) I cannot but wince slightly at "the hoi polloi".   Since "hoi polloi" means "the many", as Kulturvultur said at the beginning, it sounds to my ear as though one ought to speak of hoi polloi (with "hoi" completely unemphasized, as "the" would be).   But no doubt only a very few will find that sits well on their grammatical ear.

Guest
11
2012/02/28 - 9:51am

While I understand your discomfort with the hoi polloi, it is not at all uncommon for English to bring in foreign phrases and names with their native articles, then to treat them as fixed phrases, adding the English articles to the phrase.

Consider these (granted, they are mostly capitalized, but still … ) examples actually culled from the internet from reasonable credible sources:
The Le Mans is the most collectable and valuable GTA derivative.
The Eldorado at 300 Central Park West, on the Upper West Side of New York City, is the northernmost of four twin-towered luxury housing cooperatives.
Hastings in no way glorifies the Das Reich's march to Normandy.
The De Stijl, literally translated as “the style” was an art movement founded by architect by architect and painter Theo van Deosburg in 1917 in Leiden.
I decided to choose the Gli Scipioni after seeing the good reviews on trip advisor, and I wasn't disappointed.

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
(Offline)
12
2012/02/28 - 11:09am

It is not just articles from other languages we double. While not pervasive, acronyms do it often:

ATM machines,
SSN number, and
PIN number come to mind. I am sure there are others. These acronyms are also treated as fixed phrases.

Emmett

PS I can understand why any of these might be ear jarring.

Guest
13
2012/02/28 - 11:43am

Yeah, I always grit my teeth at "VIN numbers".

And it could be worse.   I once heard someone refer to an automatic ATM machine.   Really, I did!

While we're on the subject, what's your opinion of an extension number?   I say simply "extension", but I admit it's not quite the same thing.   Close, though.

Guest
14
2012/02/28 - 11:45am

Oh, I forgot:   Regarding foreign words, there's also "rice pilaf", "nan bread" and a few others of that ilk.

Guest
15
2012/02/28 - 11:49am

Strictly as an aside, I once read that when Cook was exploring Australia (it was Cook, right?), he and his party topped a ridge and saw their first roo.   He asked his guide(s) what in the world that was, and was told kanga roo—which being translated is "it's a roo".

I've always loved that story.   I hope it's true.

Guest
16
2012/02/28 - 9:59pm

Cecil Adams has a good column about kangaroos and other names.

But this column is 27 years old.   Who knows what new story has arisen?

 

straightdope.com/columns/read/491/whats-the-origin-of-kangaroo-court

 

(I could not make this link work with a click.   You'll have to copy and paste to your browser.)

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