Discussion Forum (Archived)
Guest
Do you know where your participle is dangling? Martha and Grant salute National Grammar Day on March 4. Also, when you're scribbling on a piece of paper, do you find yourself expecting spellcheck to kick in and underline your misspellings with squiggly red lines? A caller wants a term for the act of trying to do offline what can only be done online.
Read the original blog post and listen to this episode. To be regularly notified when new episodes are available, subscribe to the podcast in iTunes or with another podcast reader.
Let's see…there's National Cheese Day on January 20 and of course National Iguana Awareness Day on September 8. So it's only fitting that good grammar should get a day of its own, too. National Grammar Day has been proclaimed for March 4 by the the Society for the Promotion of Good Grammar, an organization for those “who crave good, clean English – sentences cast well and punctuated correctly.” The group's site, sums it up this way: “It's about clarity.”
Martha and Grant are down with that. So here's to National Grammar Day and also to the wise cautionary note sounded by Baltimore Sun copy editor John McIntyre about the danger of getting too curmudegonly about it all.
A woman calls on behalf of her 12-year-old son, who wants to know the origin of the term “booby trap.” No, the hosts explain, the answer has nothing to do with brassieres. What about these strange fellows?
A Wisconsin resident gets misty-eyed remembering the steaming plates of Beef Manhattan and Turkey Manhattan from his elementary-school days in central Indiana. But why the “Manhattan” in their names? How far back to do you remember eating it? Let us know.
An equestrian wonders about the origin of the expression “lock, stock, and barrel.”
Quiz Guy John Chaneski presents a word puzzle about snowclones, linguists' joking term for twists on formulaic expressions.
Have you ever done something you regretted, and instinctively reached for the “undo” function, despite being nowhere near a computer? Maybe a page in your book accidentally turns and you reach for the browser's back button? A Hoosier seeks a term for the act of trying to do offline what can only be done online. Post your suggestions here.
The election's still months away, but a caller in Okinawa, Japan wonders how the husband of a female U.S. president should be addressed if the husband himself is a former president. The hosts rule out “First Laddie.”
A caller wants to know the origin of the word “piker,” as in a “parsimonious person.”
A few episodes ago, Martha and Grant asked listeners for variations on the road-trip game of padiddle and boy, did they oblige. For starters, how about all these names for the tail-light version of padiddle? Padunkle, padonkle, perdunkle, pasquaddle, paduchi, Popeye, and dinklepink. Personally, we can't wait for the next time we're out on the road at night.
This week's “Slang This!” contestant tries to guess the meaning of the slang terms “goat's mouth” and “happy sack.”
A caller wants to know which is correct: “pleaded” or “pled”?
An Indianapolis listener who lives on same street where James Whitcomb Riley made his home wonders if the poet's name has anything to do with the expression associated with living in high style, “the life of Riley.” Click on the “lyrics” button on this transcription from a piano roll to see the full words to the song.
A California caller gets a clarification about when to use “a” and “an” if the next word starts with a vowel sound.
Hi! Your show is so fun! Thanks for keeping us amused while also exercising our intellect!
I live in a suburb of Indy, and I was raised about 50 mi NE of downtown, in a city called Anderson. Our school lunches were being served a little later than your caller's; I was in elementary throughout the 70's, and I remember turkey and beef manhattans well. They weren't my favorite lunch item, as the bread was frequently soggy, but I certainly wouldn't look at him as a crazy man. Please let him know that we still have tenderloin sandwiches as big as a frisbee, and that they're still served on buns as little as a baseball. 🙂
I moved to Terre Haute, IN in 1952. Some short time after moving, I became aware of beef manhattans served at diners, cafeterias, lunchcounters, etc. Later I also knew of turkey manhattans. A manhattan is a white bread sandwich of thickly(more or less) sliced meat topped with mashed potatoes and smothered in gravy. From your show, it sounds like some later versions used only one slice of bread. I now live in Kokomo, IN, and I believe somewhere in town I could still get a beef or turkey manhattan as a luncheon special.
"The election's still months away, but a caller in Okinawa, Japan wonders how the husband of a female U.S. president should be addressed if the husband himself is a former president. The hosts rule out “First Laddie.”
Grant has it right...you would call Bill 'Mr. Clinton' not because it avoids a problem with the title of President but because only the occupant of the Oval Office has the right to be called by that title. All past presidents are "former president surname". Both past presidents and current presidents are called "Mr.". So if Hillary Clinton becomes president -she- would have to make a decision as to whether to be addressed as 'Mrs. President', 'Ms. President' or 'Miss President' as she prefers. Any time she was introduced, she would be President Clinton and he would be Mr. Clinton.
One may get into the whole dilemma about actual usage trumping formal usage, but I think reserving the title of President to the current president actually serves a valid purpose and should be supported and preserved.
On a related note, several years back Hillary chose to use her father's surname as her middle name, declaring herself 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' in order to honor her dad. At the time, many people praised this as a very forward and feminist thing to do. This has bugged me mightily, having grown up in an era when ALL women took their father's surname as middle name upon marriage. It had the feel of "I used to be owned by middle-name-guy and I am now owned by last-name-guy." Hardly feminist and something that I (silly feminist that I am) had thought we had fought hard to stop doing. I hadn't thought of it until just now, but maybe this is one reason I'm not a big Hillary fan?
Love your show.
I think the word is "E-flex."
The one that I always run into is wanting to search. If you're reading a document online, you can always hit "Ctrl-F" to find exactly what you're looking for. I often find myself facing a big hard-copy document and thinking I should search it ... not just wishing that I could, but actually thinking I should, only for a moment, out of instinct or reflex.
Hence, e-flex.
Have you ever done something you regretted, and instinctively reached for the “undo” function, despite being nowhere near a computer? Maybe a page in your book accidentally turns and you reach for the browser's back button? A Hoosier seeks a term for the act of trying to do offline what can only be done online.
How about "to confuter"?
I love the discussion about keystrokes trying to assert themselves in inappropriate contexts, because it is a sensation with which I am definitely familiar. Be it Grant's "Command-Z" undo twitch, or Martha's wishing that her office had a search function. (I am recovering from just recently moving from San Diego to Denver. I wish my whole life had a search function!")
As far as giving name to the sensation goes, I love Rob's "e-flex" submission. "Oops, I guess my e-flexes got the better of me!"
I like it because it implies unconscious muscle response, which falls in with Grant's likening it to muscle memory. I agree with that reckoning because the phenomenon, understandably, seems to be limited to keystrokes, quick finger flits that can be performed unconsciously. I can't imagine anybody having finger-jerk reactions involving an elaborate combination of motions, involving reaching for a mouse, navigating to a menu bar, and enabling the "spell-check" function. It has to have the speed and efficiency of a keystroke.
It is very interesting to see virtual reality assert itself over actual reality. Our world, or rather the amount of time we spend these days in front of the monitor and keyboard, has created for us such an environment, which has in turn given us a defined set of expectations and parameters and tools, and we have grown so accustomed to working in this environment that we have developed a real frame of mind, a real way of thinking, and it of course feels natural to us to expect these same tools and contexts to be available to us anywhere else we go, be it in cyberspace or meatspace.
Anyways, I enjoyed this segment of the show and spent a little time pondering a possible description for the feeling.
"Phantom keyboard" seems like an appropriate clinical term.
The other thing I came up with was a result of my wanting to reconcile the existence of keystrokes in the virtual world with the longing for them in the fleshy world, but the subsequent "fleshstrokes" did not sit quite right with me.
Thoughts?
Have you ever done something you regretted, and instinctively reached for the “undo” function, despite being nowhere near a computer? Maybe a page in your book accidentally turns and you reach for the browser's back button? A Hoosier seeks a term for the act of trying to do offline what can only be done online. Post your suggestions here.
I have suffered from this problem and have a perfect name for it.
Early in my career, I was working on computers with mice and using paper reference materials at the same time. I would frequently look something up in the paper reference manual that was lying on my desk, then want to "copy" the same text into the computer. I would find myself moving my mouse towards the paper reference in hopes of "double clicking" on the paper and ink to copy it into my computer. But the little arrow just stopped at the edge of the screen and I would be jarred back into reality.
I call this an attempted "Paper Click".
I totally know what everyone means about the e-flex (that is totally the greatest of many great terms suggested so far for it IMHO), I am particularly inclined to want to ctrl+f paper documents.
I was also interested in the discussion of the word "piker". I don't think I have heard that used where I am currently living in Florida, however where I am originally from in New Zealand it is a common term that just means someone who pulls out of some group activity they had said they would. So we would say "I hate to be a piker, but I'm not going to be there to go running at 6am tomorrow".
I don't think it is particularly related to financial cheapness. I am pleased to hear about the US usage - I could have easily been confused if I did hear it here.
Regarding the turkey and beef manhattans -- I moved to Indiana only four years ago, but this week i have taken a poll and found people even from Evansville, the southernmost part of Indiana, refer to these dishes as manhattans. My friend Mike (age 28) says his grandfather owned a diner in Southern Indiana and this was always on the menu.
I personally grew up in Tennessee, and I remember eating what would be called Roast Beef Manhattans here, but, for the life of me, I can't remember what we called them in Tennessee.
I also remember reading in the book "Fifteen at Last" by Candice Ransom a description of Turkey Manhattan, but it wasn't necessary called that. It was served at a Drug Store diner in the book, which are almost as difficult to find as this book.
I can attest that they taste scrumptious.
Grant and Martha- Thanks so much for answering my question (or rather, my son's question) about "booby traps". After listening to the podcast, my brother- who is stationed in Germany- sent me this comment. "Your clip sparked a conversation in our house though. Melanie (his wife) mentioned that the old ladies in the village refer to toddlers as "boobs." We think it is slang over here for young children of breastfeeding age. It kind of fits in with what the hosts were saying about the origin of the word." Thought you might enjoy hearing that.
Also, you might be interested to know that our family's new favorite word is "agathakakological", a word we heard on one of your past shows. My 10-year-old daughter has been reading a book called "The Worst Witch Saves the Day" by Jill Murphy. One of the characters is someone who appears to be good, but in reality is very evil. Her name? Agatha Cackle! We thought our fellow word nerds would enjoy that fact, too.
I love Rob's e-flex. I've called it techpraxia, and referred to myself as techpraxic. But that sounds too medical, and fails the tickle-the-tongue test.
The question of "a" and "an" becomes really interesting (read troubling) for me when applied to acronyms. Lots of consonants, when spelled, start with vowel sounds, so they should take "an," right?
To echo Grant's "a Euro" -- or "a European traveller" -- it is "a UFO" either when spelled out or pronounced as "yoofo," and it is "an IRA" either when spelled out or pronounced as "eye-ra."
"An FBI agent," of course. But people use the vowel vs. consonant rule based on spelling and write "a FBI agent." I think that is wrong. By contrast, to use a recent caller's favorite slang: "a FUBAR situation." With "an LCD screen," "an NCAA game," "an FDR signature" -- all these initial consonants start with vowel sounds
But even if we decide it is the sound that matters, some acronyms are sometimes spelled and sometimes pronounced, leaving me perplexed. This is similar to the "homage" discussion in a recent episode: "a homage" when you pronounce the "h" sound; "an homage" when you prefer the Francophile pronunciation. So you need to be careful when writing:
"an SAT exam" -- (does anyone pronounce it like the past of "sit"? In that case it would be "a SAT exam")
"an SQL query" if you spell it out, but some DO pronounce it like "sequel" in which case it should be "a SQL query"
etc.
I usually pause each time I need to write a/an before an acronym and research all the practices of pronunciation before I can decide. As a result, I usually recast the sentence to avoid the problem. Am I alone?
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
2 Guest(s)