Discussion Forum (Archived)
Guest
"A few pickles short of a jar," "a few peas short of a casserole," "two French fries short of a Happy Meal"—this week, Martha and Grant discuss these and other full-deckisms, those clever ways to describe someone who falls short in some way. Also, what's the story behind the old phrase "fish or cut bait"? When does the word it's have an apostrophe? And is "that's a good question" really a good response?
This episode first aired April 10, 2010.
[soundcloud url="http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/179683420" params="auto_play=false&show_artwork=false&color=ff7700&show_playcount=false" width="100%" height="180" iframe="true" /]
Full-Deckisms
"Not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree lights," "The wind is blowing but nothing's moving," "A few tacos short of a combo platter." After Grant tells a story on himself, the hosts discuss euphemistic ways of saying someone's not playing with a full deck.
Possessive Form of "It"
Is it ever okay to write the word it's to indicate the possessive? Is the correct sentence "The dog is chewing its bone," or "The dog is chewing it's bone"? It's easy to figure out once you know the formula: It's = it is. Grant mentions that there's an ice cream called "It's It."
Fish or Cut Bait
"Fish or cut bait." What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
Norwegian Tann Paste
In an earlier episode, we discussed linguistic false friends, those words in foreign languages that look like familiar English words, but mean something quite different. Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
Categorical Allies Puzzle
Quiz Guy Greg Pliska has a puzzle called "Categorical Allies." After he says a word, you must come up with second word that's in the same category, and begins with the last two letters of the original word. For example, if he says "Sampras," then the category is tennis, and the second word is "Ashe." Now try this first clue: "Sacramento." The second word would be...?
That's a Good Question
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
Ultracrepidarian
A Texas caller wonders about the origin and meaning of the term ultracrepidarian.
Entomological Riddle
Grant shares an entomological—not etymological— riddle.
Galloping Horse Expression
The expression "It'll never be seen on a galloping horse" means "Don't be such a perfectionist." But why? A caller remembers an even odder version: It'll never be seen on a galloping goose.
Linguistic Reason for Name Confusion
In an earlier episode, a caller named Todd said that people are forever calling him Scott. He wondered if there was some linguistic reason that people so often confused these names. Grant does a follow-up on why people sometimes mix up names.
Make Ends Meet
You're struggling to live on a budget. Are you trying to make ends meet or make ends meat?
All Cornflakes in One Box
The hosts offer some more full-deckisms, such as "He doesn't have all his cornflakes in one box" and "She thought she couldn't use her AM radio in the evening."
Both and "Bolth"
A San Francisco man confesses he routinely pronounces the word both as "bolth." Grant gives him the results of an informal online survey that shows the caller he's not alone—some 10 percent of respondents said they do the same thing.
Morbid Fascination
Is there a single word that sums up the idea of morbid fascination?
This episode is hosted by Martha Barnette and Grant Barrett, and produced by Stefanie Levine.
Photo by The Farmstrs. Used under a Creative Commons license.
Music Used in the Broadcast
| Title | Artist | Album | Label |
|---|---|---|---|
| New Eastern Day | Timeless Timmy | Unreleased | Timeless Takeover |
| Soul of Ashley | Timeless Timmy | Unreleased | Timeless Takeover |
| Sound Of The Ghost | Clutchy Hopkins | Walking Backwards | Ubiquity Records |
| Contemplation | Timeless Timmy | Unreleased | Timeless Takeover |
| Frankenstein | The Edgar Winter Group | They Only Come Out At Night | Sony |
| Song For Wolfie | Clutchy Hopkins | Walking Backwards | Ubiquity Records |
| Cut The Cake | Average White Band | Cut The Cake | Atlantic |
| The Chicken | The JB's | Soul Pride: Instrumentals '60-'69 | Polygram Records |
| Let's Call The Whole Thing Off | Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong | The Best of Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong | Polygram Records |
I'm living in Wisconsin now. Home of the Ole' and Lena jokes. So, in honor of this genre, whenever someone is a little bit aways from the norm I just say they are 'one Lena short of a joke'.
Grant Barrett said:
A few pickles short of a jar, a few peas short of a casserole, two French fries short of a Happy Meal—this week, Martha and Grant discuss these and other full-deckisms, those clever ways to describe someone who falls short in some way. Also, what's the story behind the old phrase "fish or cut bait"? When does the word "it's" have an apostrophe? And is "that's a good question" really a good response?
Audio will be available here for downloading and online listening Monday, April 12, 2010.
To be automatically notified when audio is available, subscribe to the podcast using iTunes or another podcatching program.
"Not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree lights," "The wind is blowing but nothing's moving," "A few tacos short of a combo platter." After Grant tells a story on himself, the hosts discuss euphemistic ways of saying someone's not playing with a full deck.
Is it ever okay to write the word it's to indicate the possessive? Is the correct sentence "The dog is chewing its bone," or "The dog is chewing it's bone"? It's easy to figure out once you know the formula: It's = it is.
Grant mentions that there's an ice cream called "It's It."
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
In an earlier episode, we discussed linguistic false friends, those words in foreign languages that look like familiar English words, but mean something quite different. Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
Quiz Guy Greg Pliska has a puzzle called "Categorical Allies." After he says a word, you must come up with second word that's in the same category, and begins with the last two letters of the original word. For example, if he says "Sampras," then the category is tennis, and the second word is "Ashe." Now try this first clue: "Sacramento." The second word would be...?
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
A Texas caller wonders about the origin and meaning of the term ultracrepidarian.
Grant shares an entomological—not etymological—riddle.
The expression "It'll never be seen on a galloping horse" means "Don't be such a perfectionist." But why? A caller remembers an even odder version: It'll never be seen on a galloping goose.
In an earlier episode, a caller named Todd said that people are forever calling him Scott. He wondered if there was some linguistic reason that people so often confused these names. Grant does a follow-up on why people sometimes mix up names.
You're struggling to live on a budget. Are you trying to make ends meet or make ends meat?
The hosts offer some more full-deckisms, such as "He doesn't have all his cornflakes in one box" and "She thought she couldn't use her AM radio in the evening."
A San Francisco man confesses he routinely pronounces the word "both" as "bolth." Grant gives him the results of an informal online survey that shows the caller he's not alone—some 10 percent of respondents said they do the same thing.
Is there a single word that sums up the idea of morbid fascination?
I think this phrase is somewhat overused – as was said on the show, it may be more a way of stalling for time or just giving some positive strokes to the person asking the question. However, as a university professor who used to respond with this phrase to almost every question to be supportive of my students, I have come to the conclusion that not all questions are good. Examples are 1) asking questions that were just asked by another student, but the questioner wasn't paying attention, 2) asking questions that are intended to make a point rather than truly inquire on a subject (e.g. I have had students in the past who posture to try to increase other students' perceptions of the questioner), and 3) asking questions that cannot fairly be answered (e.g. the "when did you stop beating your spouse?" type of question, though I haven't seen this happen in a university setting.) So, at least I would suggest that people consider carefully whether the question was truly good before saying this.
Paul
Grant Barrett said:
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
As I understand this phrase, it means to "either do it, or give up". It's, in my mind, identical to "sh*t or get off the pot". I've lived all over the country and have used this phrase in that way in so many states. I've always been understood.
Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
This does not ring true to me. Surely she would have smelled the mint??
Martha, while you and I share that we experienced grammar-school traumas — mine being the serial comma — I have to disagree with your teacher's rule: it's could also mean "it has."
e.g. "It's been 3 years since we've gone to Europe."
In this case, your teacher's rule would break. You cannot substitute "it is" for this it's. But you certainly should not write it as its.
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
I have been encouraged by these words at times when asking a somewhat public question. In other settings, I've witnessed questions that pointed out issues that had not been considered, but that were important oversights. Everyone was glad the question was raised. So I don't really have a problem with this, even if it is used as a crutch for the speaker to gather thoughts.
The related expression that does bother me is "There's no such thing as a stupid question." I often respond "We all know that's not true." Then, if pressed, I would refer to situations similar to those that wagnerpaulj so aptly points out above.
radleyas said:
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
As I understand this phrase, it means to "either do it, or give up". It's, in my mind, identical to "sh*t or get off the pot". I've lived all over the country and have used this phrase in that way in so many states. I've always been understood.
The main character in the movie "Trixie", played by Emily Watson, is a detective given to muddled language. In one of her first speeches of the film, she tells someone he should "either fish or get off the pot".
I too have been guilty of declaring something "a good question", but that means I have some insight into what it is that elicits such a response. When I'm teaching a class or giving a presentation, I have a set of topics that I need to address, and a rough idea of how I'm going to get from one topic to the next. Some of those transitions are smoother than others, and if someone happens to ask a question at the appropriate moment that will lead nicely into the next point, that not only makes it easier for me, but may well make the subject matter easier for the audience to follow, and it tells me that what I've presented up to that point has the questioner thinking along the same lines as my talk.
Not that there's anything wrong with a simple "I don't quite understand what you mean by X", but when a question has benefits in three distinct areas, I think it's worth acknowledging the fact.
The situation with the apostrophe in its and it's also isn't all that unique. Consider
your / you're
their / they're
whose / who's
Still few people confuse his with he's or her with she's. My conclusion is that it's not simply the apostrophe or its lack that causes the confusion, but that there is also a strong phonetic componant to these substitutions and confusions. The argument for the phonetic componant is supported each time the word there gets mixed in with their or they're.
[edit: added the following]
Perhaps it would make good advice to a struggler to suggest the trial substitution of his / he's (or my / I'm?) to see which fits, then follow that pattern, apostrophe or none, based on the result of that test. I've never tried giving this advice, so I'll have to get back to you all on the success.
A fun full-deckism that I've used in the past is really just adding to a standard phrase to describe a certain kind of person who is beautiful enough that they've decided to use their looks rather than their minds:
"Nothing up stairs, but oh, what a staircase"
Like how Judy Holliday's character, Billie, began in Born Yesterday
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
I've heard the "that's a good question" line many times used to mean "I was hoping you'd ask that so I can say something I wanted to say anyway" but on a few occasions I've heard people actually using it to express a happy surprise when someone asks a question that the person had never considered before; that's the most honest use of the phrase.
Ron – Because the "… get off the pot" expression is popular locally, but I don't want to use the crude language at the beginning of the phrase, I have used "fish or get off the pot" for years. (I never saw the movie.) It's off-kilter just enough to catch attention. (Same with "That's the way the cookie bounces." Ditto for "We can complain that roses have thorns, or we can be glad that . . . thorns smell so good.")
. . .
"That's a good question" – I'm OK if it's not patronizing. When teaching workshops, if a question leads into the next point, I often say, "That's a good segue into…" To new questions I usually respond: "No one has asked me that before. Let me think about that for a minute…"
What does annoy me is when someone wants to make a statement, but either begins or ends with "Wouldn't you agree [that]…?" (or something equivalent). I feel the speaker is applying subtle pressure to control my response. [Wouldn't you agree? – Just kidding, but how did you feel when I threw that in?]
. . .
It's / Its – I use the same hint Martha does: The apostrophe indicates a contraction of two words (it's = it is or it has). Also, I can't think of any possessive pronouns that contain an apostrophe.
Re: fish or cut bait: Grant and Martha, along with the caller, seemed to be a bit wrapped around the axle trying to parse the phrase too literally. While it can certainly be used that way, the caller was talking about a discussion he was having with his friend that seemed to be unable to reach resolution. This is the case with most uses of this phrase (IMHO), in that it infers that whatever is being concentrated upon should get busy proceeding to resolution, or it should be dropped altogether and something else should be engaged. It is more of an allusionary phrase (if allusionary is a word) and less intended to be used literally.
Also, re: off-kilter phrasing: my son's band director used a similar device. When trying to get across the point that a certain thing should be simply achieved, he'd say, "Hey, it's not rocket surgery."
My $0.02.
"cut bait" - Reminds me of an old joke:
Rumor was that someone was fishing by throwing live dynamite into the lake, then collecting the dead fish that floated to the surface. The local game warden (dressed in plain clothes) convinced the suspect to go fishing in a boat together.
Out on the lake, the suspect lit a stick of dynamite. The warden immediately started to tell him, "I'm the game warden, and you are under arrest..."
The suspect handed him the dynamite and said, "Did you come here to talk, or to fish?"
Found this link/site for full-deckisms
http://pages.city2000.net/~mking/fulldeck.htm
Notes
(1) Many don't seem (to me) to fit the pattern, but still may be useful (if you find insults useful).
(2) Many seem to be computer/technology related. (I didn't understand a lot of them, or didn't think they were funny.)
(3) BTW, the title (as seen in the title bar of the browser window, not on the page itself) is spelled _Fulldeckism's_, using apostrophe-S to indicate plural. *sigh*
A most enjoyable show! Since I live in France, I can't resist pointing out an amusing mispronunciation in Grant's explanation of why it's "make ends meet" and not "meat." He said it came from the French phrase "joindre les deux bouts" but he made bouts rhyme with deux instead of sounding like boo in English. This made me laugh out loud because it sounded like bœufs (the f isn't pronounced in the plural like it is in the singular) which means beef, which is of course meat! In all fairness, in the plural it would generally mean cattle rather than something ready to be eaten, but it was delightfully ironic anyway.
Thanks for a great show and a great laugh, even if the latter was unintentional. 🙂
RE: morbid fascination
Lit crit/philosophy people actually have a word for it: "abjection" as used by the French philosopher and psychoanalyst Julia Kristeva in her book "Powers of Horror: An Essay on Abjection". Here is a short but very, shall I say, evocative quote (New York: Columbia University Press, 1982, transl. Leon S. Roudiez).
Loathing an item of food, a piece of filth, waste or dung. The spasms and vomiting that protect me. The repugnance, the retching that thrusts me to the side and protects me from defilement, sewage and muck. The shame of compromise, of being in the middle of treachery. The fascinated start that leads me toward and separates me from them.
The whole book is rather heavy-going for those not used to psychoanalytic jargon, but responds to your listener's question, I think, quite precisely.
And of course Plato addressed the same issue (but without naming it) with his famous story in Republic about Leontius:
Leontius, the son of Aglaion, was going up from the Piraeus along the outside of the North Wall when he saw some corpses lying at the executioners feet. He had an appetite to look at them but at the same time he was disgusted and turned away. For a time he struggled with himself and covered his face, but, finally overpowered by the appetite, he pushed his eyes wide open and rushed towards the corpses, saying, “Look for yourselves, you evil wretches, take your fill of the beautiful sight.
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
2 Guest(s)