1. What was that phrase from last week about the "thinker upper"? I liked it so was sure I'd remember it. Was something like "Thinker-upper is the ???-upper."
2. Commas and quotes.
It irritates me to so often see a comma or period outside the quotes. Is that being placed incorrectly so often that it's becoming common usage? (Like "myriad of.")
Are there any instances where the quotes would go inside the punctuation? Say for example when a quoted title ends the sentence, such as ...one of our favorites was "Dancing in the Sweets".
1. That phrase you're dying to remember is “Thinkers uppers, thinkers it."
2. You're right, that is most irritating. That said, I don't see any danger of it becoming accepted as correct--at least not anytime soon. However, there are a few instances in which the punctuation goes outside the quotation marks.
The example you gave, though, is not one of them. It matters not whether you are writing a title or quoting dialog; the quotation marks go around a period if the quotation is the last thing in the sentence. The exception to this is if the thing in quotation marks is a single letter or number.
Ex. One of our favorites was "Dancing in the Sweets."
Ex. To continue, you must press the button labeled "Enter."
Ex. The only grade that I will be happy with is an "A".
Ex. On this scale, the highest ranking is a "1", not a "10".
The other rule that allows punctuation outside of quotation marks has to do with exclamation points and question marks. If the punctuation goes with what is being quoted, it goes inside the quotation marks. If it goes with the sentence as a whole, set it outside.
Ex. Are we going to watch "American Idol"?
Ex. I prefer to watch "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
I hope that didn't just confuse you...
I like the Irish version I heard. "Thinkers suffer, Drinkers sit"
Please allow me to copy-and-paste directly from a few web sites. (Forgive me for not using quotation marks around these exact quotes, but I fear that would cause even more confusion.)
_____
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/quotation.htm
In the United States, periods and commas go inside quotation marks regardless of logic. . . .
In the United Kingdom, Canada, and islands under the influence of British education, punctuation around quotation marks is more apt to follow logic. In American style [that is, in the United States, but not necessarily in other North American countries such as Canada], then, you would write: My favorite poem is Robert Frost's "Design." But in England you would write: My favorite poem is Robert Frost's "Design".
_____
See also
http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html
_____
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark
History
The rule more common in North America follows an older standard that was also once common in England. Before the advent of mechanical type, the order of quotation marks with periods and commas was not given much consideration. The printing press required that the easily damaged smallest pieces of type for the comma and period be protected behind the more robust quotation marks. During the early 19th century, this typesetter's rule was standard in both Britain and North America, where the older tradition is still adhered to in everyday use and in almost all forms of formal writing. That punctuation should be placed outside quotation marks unless part of the quoted material was advocated by Fowler and Fowler in The King's English (1906).
Typesetters' rules does permit periods and commas outside the quotation marks when the presence of the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks will lead to ambiguity, such as when describing keyboard input:
In the File name text field, type "HelloWorldApp.java", including the quotation marks.
[Footnote: Part of a tutorial on Java programming on Microsoft Windows. Those parts of this page which would not be ambiguous follow the American rule.]
_____
Another example: Suppose I send this instruction to computer users:
Enter "http://w3.com."
I can expect to get calls asking, "Do I type in the period too?"
Even though it differs from common usage in the United States, the sentence is clearer when written as:
Enter "http://w3.com".
This is becoming more common in computer documentation, but I can't speak to whether it is considered acceptable usage by particular style guides or authorities.
WHY is it irritating to see a period or comma outside the quotation marks? What is wrong with one simple, logical principle that lets quotation marks do what they're supposed to do: mark quotations? If the other punctuation is part of the quote, put it inside. If not, put it outside. What does the existing pile of rules and exceptions accomplish except to confuse?
I know what the rules are, and can even bring myself to follow them if I absolutely must, but I can't for the life of me see why these rules have such staunch defenders. The castle is being defended, but I can't see any weapons. Just big, thick walls. Please, enlighten me.
Peter