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Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

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What is this structure or device called?
Guest
1
2015/01/08 - 9:42am

I found myself struggling to come up with a term while proofing an essay for a friend. He used an inconsistent format for dates. In some places he'd write "April 12" and in others he'd write "April 12th" (with the "th" formatted as a superscript).

So in my editorial comments I found myself in need of a way to refer to that "th" used on some dates. Same with "st" for like "April 1st."

Here's what I ended up writing:

Minor point, but your date format is inconsistent throughout the text. In some places you use “April 12th“and in others you skip the superscripted “th”.

I can't help but think that "the superscripted 'th'" is a bit awkward but could not think of a more elegant or succinct term.

My question: Is there a term for that appended superscript? Maybe "appended superscript" is the best choice? IMO, that superscript performs the same function as an adjective (adjectival superscript?), but I'm not sure. Any feedback appreciated, thanks.

Guest
2
2015/01/08 - 10:40am

I have always heard numbers with the appendage referred to as ordinal numbers as opposed to cardinal numbers.

Robert
553 Posts
(Offline)
3
2015/01/08 - 11:18am

The terms 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. are abbreviations for the words for the ordinal numbers, so there is really no name for those elements used,  just as you might say the same of Mr, Mme being for Mister, Madame.  What seem meaningful designations of their own right are but fragments from the full word.

Your phrase seems fine, but I might even simplify it as  '... you skip the script 'th' ...'

Guest
4
2015/01/08 - 11:28am

In language-blind terminology these are ordinal (number) indicators or ordinal (number) suffixes.
English: 1st, 2nd, 3rd
French: 1er/1re, 2e, 3e
Russian: 1-?, 2-?, 3-? *see edit below

In English, the practice of using superscripts has fallen away and many style guides indicate the writer should use inline letters rather than superscipts. Microsoft Word, however, will superscript the ordinal indicators by default, so you might want to turn that "feature" off.

[edit]
Well, it looks like the Russian letter won't come out. It is a short-i ( example) in Russian that stands as the ordinal indicator (for masculine singular nominative). The ordinal indicator inflects with the word, and Russians use as many letters as needed to indicate gender, number, and case, usually 1 or 2 letters.

Guest
5
2015/01/08 - 11:56am

Robert said
 just as you might say the same of Mr, Mme being for Mister, Madame.  What seem meaningful designations of their own right are but fragments from the full word

Those are called abbreviations for the titles.

Guest
6
2015/01/08 - 11:56am

Thank you gentlemen. All great input. I understand ordinal vs. cardinal. I also see how "5th" is actually an abbreviation for "fifth" as Robert noted. I knew the writer would understand my editorial comment, but just felt it sounded clunky. I like "ordinal suffix" as the best name for those devices and will change my comment before I send it back to the writer. Thanks Glenn (and Robert and Dick).

Yeah, MS Word does that automatically. My editor prefers in-line ordinal suffixes, and I'm getting tired of changing that manually every time it happens. Alas, there's nowhere in the settings to turn off that feature (bug?). At least not in MS Word 2000.

Wouldn't it be great if, in the MS Word settings, you could tell it to "use the MLA style guide" (or whatever)? Maybe newer versions do? I'm still using the (relatively) unbloated MS Word 2000. All it gives me is a choice between "standard" "formal" "technical" and "custom" styles with no place to turn off superscripted ordinal suffixes.

Guest
7
2015/01/08 - 1:23pm

For MS Word 2010, there is a way:
File (tab) menu / Options / Proofing (left rail) / AutoCorrect Options (button) / AutoFormat As You Type (tab) / Ordinals (1st) with superscript (checkbox)
Uncheck the checkbox and click the OK button.

I don't know about Word 2000, but I suspect you can do it there, too. Start with Options and poke around for AutoCorrect or AutoFormat.

Guest
8
2015/01/08 - 3:07pm

Found it! Wasn't exactly where you described, but it was there, buried deep in the Options menu. And MS Word 2000 remembers that setting between documents. Cool. While I was there, I turned off autoformat for bulleted and numbered lists, another pesky default setting that's been bugging me. Not quite as annoying as "Clippy" but good to get it the way I want. Thanks Glenn!

[edit] Woohoo ... just noticed this was my 800th post. Note the in-line ordinal suffix. :) So do I win something when I pass Martha, 20 posts from now?

Guest
9
2015/01/08 - 8:23pm

Here's what you win!

 

"Help" tells me that there should be an "Insert Image" button, but I don't see it.

deaconB
744 Posts
(Offline)
10
2015/01/09 - 12:19am

The "st", "rd"., "th" et cetera symbols are not, properly speaking, superscript characters, but are superior characters.  Using superscript places the higher thaqn they ought to be.

Not that it makes much difference.  There are also actually *about* 72.3 points to an inch, but people claim that it's exactly 72 points, and who can I file an appeal to aq higher court?  This is like arguing right-of-way between a little Sunfish sailboat and a Carnival Cruise lines ship.  Theoretically, the sailboat has right of weay, but it's not a gopod idea to raise that issue while standing aboard that sailboat.

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