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"try and" versus "try to"
Guest
1
2011/02/22 - 9:00pm

I hear "try and" more and more in place of "try to" and it bugs the heck out of me! Even news anchors--for example, "We will try and bring you the latest coverage." I swear it's supposed to be "try to." Am I wrong? Have conventions changed? If not, are there times when "try and" in a similar context is considered proper English?

Guest
2
2011/02/22 - 11:41pm

You're absolutely correct. "Try and . . ." is almost always incorrect. For example, "I wanted to try and play tennis," suggests two different actions: to try and to play tennis. To try to play tennis suggests the act of attempting to play tennis, which would seem to be the point of the statement. To "try and . . ." is grammatical only if the "trying" and the "doing" should be noted as different actions, which, in most cases, they should not be.

Guest
3
2011/02/24 - 3:06am

I had a discussion about this with a language authority, which I can't cite at the moment because it's on an ailing computer, but the upshot is that this is actually an ancient usage, which also shows up in the form of "be sure and." It pretty much defies logic, but it is idiomatic, so opinions don't count. I don't like it either, but it has been part of the language for centuries. If I can resurrect my computer I will share the information I have (or had).

Peter

Guest
4
2011/02/24 - 6:48am

I have no issue with try and. I find it in respectable writing in art, academia, and science: (Emphases in the quotes are mine.)

Robert Burns (1759–1796). Poems and Songs.
161. Epigram Addressed to an Artist

DEAR ———, I'll gie ye some advice,
You'll tak it no uncivil:
You shouldna paint at angels mair,
But try and paint the devil.

To paint an Angel's kittle wark, 5
Wi' Nick, there's little danger:
You'll easy draw a lang-kent face,
But no sae weel a stranger.—R. B.

William Makepeace Thackeray. (1811–1863). Vanity Fair. [Thackeray employs this construction often.]
XIX. Sunday after the Battle

…
Poor Rawdon took up the paper and began to try and read it until his brother should arrive.
…

The Forces of Matter, Delivered before a Juvenile Auditory at the Royal Institution of Great Britain during the Christmas Holidays of 1859–60
Lecture VI.—The Correlation of the Physical Forces

Michael Faraday

…
But we have other and deeper relations than these; we have not merely to see how it is that one power affects another—how the force of heat affects chemical affinity, and so forth, but we must try and comprehend what relation they bear to each other, and how these powers may be changed one into the other; and it will to-day require all my care, and your care too, to make this clear to your minds.
…

George Eliot. (1819–1880). The Mill on the Floss.
Book VI—The Great Temptation
X. The Spell Seems Broken

…
But at length the music wrought in her young limbs, and the longing came; even though it was the horrible young Torry, who walked up a second time to try and persuade her.
…

Henry James. (1843–1916). The Portrait of a Lady.
Chapter IX

…
“I mean to try and imitate them,” said Isabel.
…

Guest
5
2011/02/24 - 10:28am

There is also that childhood (or childish) challenge: "Try and make me!"

Guest
6
2011/02/26 - 2:19pm

Glenn said:

I have no issue with try and. I find it in respectable writing in art, academia, and science: (Emphases in the quotes are mine.)

I don't dispute its respectability, I just can't make sense of it. It has great credentials, but to my ear it sounds lazy and imprecise, and, well, wrong, and has since my childhood. It's my problem, and I have to deal with it. I do my best to avoid "correcting" anyone who uses it,but when I hear it or read it it always snaps me out of the context and into a scenario like;

JUNIOR: Dad says I have to try and do my homework before dinner.
FRIEND: So, what are you doing?
JUNIOR: Trying and do my homework.

Peter

Guest
7
2011/02/28 - 6:41am

There are other related uses of verb and verb with a distinct meaning of purpose, rather than simple conjunction, just as in try and verb. These purpose-linked conjunctions could easily be rewritten as verb to verb. One of the other most prolific of these is verb and see. In many cases, it just doesn't make sense to consider the two verbs as independently linked. (cf. It is important to do and see everything that San Diego has to offer.") Purpose is clearly in mind in the following:

Wait and see if this gets better. (cf. Wait to see if this gets better.)
I told them to look and see what the problem is. (cf. … look to see what the problem is.)
His wife asked him to taste and see if the milk was spoiled. (cf. taste to see if the milk was spoiled.)
Come and see the best show in town. (cf. Come to see the best show in town.)
Feel and see if the paint is dry. (cf. Feel to see if the paint is dry.)
Check and see that the door is locked. (cf. Check to see that the door is locked.)
Come over and have dinner with us. (cf. Come over to have dinner with us.)

Try and eradicate this use. Will it work? We'll have to wait and see.

Guest
8
2011/03/01 - 4:07pm

It's not my purpose to eradicate it, it's to understand it. Maybe I'm being stubborn (it's been known to happen), but I see try and as different from the other cases, that the verbs indicate two separate actions, as tunawrites indicated:

Wait (ten minutes). See if it gets better.
Look (at the engine). See what the problem is.
Come over (to our house). Have dinner with us.
"And" makes sense with these…

Try (to eradicate this use? gasoline and a match?). Eradicate this use.
but not with this.

I feel that I must be missing something here. I want it to make sense, and it just doesn't.

Guest
9
2011/03/02 - 4:32am

Try. Feel better. Try and feel better. (As two sentences, could the try refer to a new medication? How about as one sentence?)
Wait. See what happens. Wait and see what happens. (As two sentences, could could the wait refer to a traffic signal? How about as one sentence?)
Come over to our house. Have dinner with us. Come over to our house and have dinner with us. (As two sentences, could the have dinner refer to dinner at a restaurant? How about as one sentence?)

Guest
10
2011/03/07 - 10:09pm

Glenn said:

Try. Feel better. Try and feel better. (As two sentences, could the try refer to a new medication? How about as one sentence?)
Wait. See what happens. Wait and see what happens. (As two sentences, could could the wait refer to a traffic signal? How about as one sentence?)


Try and is often unobjectionable. And maybe it's pragmatic. But "try and feel" leads me to wonder: try what? It must be something separate, no? Otherwise the conjunctive (and) would be inappropriate.

"Wait and see" might make sense, but "try" and anything is usually confounded.

Guest
11
2011/03/08 - 6:34am

Be sure and check out this entry on "try and" in the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage. If not, at least be sure.

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage entry on "try and"

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