Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

Grant Barrett said:

Right, well, perhaps we didn't mention in that podcast, but the message that pronunciations can vary is one we deliver with regularity, so much so that I worry we say it too much! It's almost boilerplate.

I was interested that you guys didn't make that point about differences in pronunciation too (although I know you have mentioned it before) just because the starting assumption that the alternative pronunciation that someone else is using is an accepted alternative is a useful one in the kind of situation that the caller was asking about, even if you know that assumption to be extremely charitable. Then rather than telling the other person is wrong, you can say something like "the local pronunciation of x is y", or "the pronunciation among people I tend to speak to is y". Then they can admit they had only ever read the word, or on a rare occasion perhaps talk about which group they have heard their pronunciation from.

I thought the "stimuli" example was interesting, because I have always assumed that was a situation where there are two acceptable pronunciations...I am from New Zealand, but study in the US in an area where the word "stimuli" comes up a lot. I have heard both stimu-lee and stimul-lie routinely, and I assumed that it was a roughly British versus American English difference in pronunciation. In fact thinking about it now, even though I just listened to that episode, I can't remember which one you said was correct and which one incorrect, Grant. Of course, it would have been ideal for the person you saw giving a presentation to use the standard pronunciation among her audience.

Grant Barrett said:

Right, well, perhaps we didn't mention in that podcast, but the message that pronunciations can vary is one we deliver with regularity, so much so that I worry we say it too much! It's almost boilerplate.

Well Grant, I thank you for taking time to reply

That particular message can't ever be delivered too frequently. Plus this particular instance warranted it. It was on point.

This problem can occur whenever a word coming from another language is assimilated without a spelling change.

The pronunciation of stimuli as /stim-yu-lee/ is what we were taught in Latin language class. In English I pronounce it as you all do. Still, I sympathize with those who are drawn astray. Even when pronouncing Latin as Latin, there is often a disagreement between those who adhere to academic Latin and those who espouse church Latin.

I once had a pastor who, in one sermon, kept referring to Zeus as /ZAY-us/. I was confused, and marvelled at the possibility he was referring to Planet of the Apes. It was only on the third or fourth reference that I even realized it was Zeus.

When given the rare opportunity, I would always council a public speaker to err on the side of effective communication. In public speaking, if you need to use an uncommon pronunciation, you should introduce it. I had a great Philosophy prof who introduced Kant by saying “Some say /kahnt/ and some say /kant/. Most academics prefer /kahnt/. I can't say /kahnt/.”

harmonicpies said:

Thanks for bringing this up, Tru. As I was listening to the podcast, I was thinking the same thing. I can't help but laugh at how indignant some of the callers are over the “right” way or “wrong” way to use expressions or pronounce words. I have my own pet peeves, but would never presume to correct someone else. You never know when the difference in speech is just regional or cultural variation, and I usually enjoy exploring the differences. The world would be a boring place indeed if we were all just alike.

Isn't there an analogy with the phenomenon whose name I don't recall, but it is the reaction people often have when they believe that a usage is brand new (and usually "wrong"), when in fact it's simply new to them.