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What's the deal with SNUCK for the past tense of sneak? SNUCK sounds like something that comes out of one's nose. I thought the word "sneak" was used this way:
I (you, he/she/it, we, you, they) sneaked---
I have (will have/would have/could have) sneaked---
etc.
But SNUCK? YUCK!!!
Also, can anyone explain the correct usage for bring vs. take?
If I'm not mistaken, "snuck" started as a southernism; I don't think I heard it growing up in Minnesota, or if I did it was as an informal joke, quickly corrected among adults. Let's see, "sneak", "sneaked", "sneaked", right? But you're right, "snuck" seems to be gaining currency. Is it because it sounds like some other verb?
What I mean is that a few of the Germanic "strong" verbs seem to be losing one of their forms. The principle parts of "drink" are "drink", "drank", "drunk", but some people seem to be forgetting "drank" and just saying "I drunk some of it". The same thing is happening to "sink"; instead of "sank" in the past tense, quite a few people think the past tense is "sunk". And not just some but most people seem to have forgotten all about "stank"; they think the play stunk, which is just wrong. In fact, they're conjugating "stink" (and sometimes "sink" and "drink") like "sting" instead of like "sing".
What I'm wondering is whether "sneak" is being conjugated some some other verb that "sneak" reminds them of. I just can't think what it might be.
Or maybe this is just what happens to such verbs. We constantly hear "think" and "thunk", "take" and "tuck", "bring" and "brung", "drove" and "druv". Maybe it's just the same thing happening to "sneak" and "snuck".
IrritableEnglishSpeaker said:
What's the deal with SNUCK for the past tense of sneak? SNUCK sounds like something that comes out of one's nose. I thought the word "sneak" was used this way:
I (you, he/she/it, we, you, they) sneaked---
I have (will have/would have/could have) sneaked---
I agree with you. Probably many of the same people who think "drug" is the past tense of "drag."
To get back to one of Irritable's original questions (the distinction between "bring" and "take"), I'm not sure there is one. For example …
I could bring a friend to a party.
But I could also take a friend to a party.
I'd feel grammatically correct either way. Likewise …
I could bring a snack to a party.
But I could also take a snack to a party.
Doesn't seem to be any difference to me, whether what I bring is a person or a thing. If there's any diff, it might involve which person you're communicating your intentions to. I would tell the host "Yes, I'll bring (whatever) to your party." But I might tell some 3rd party "I'm taking (whatever) to the party." But really, either works for me.
I have no idea if there are any substantial grammatical issues here. Comments welcome.
Just to nail down the obvious, the technical difference between "take" and "bring" is that "take" is in motion away from the speaker and "bring" is toward. That is, if you ask me to take you to school you're speaking from the point of view of not being at school yet; if a colleague asks me to bring you to school, she's speaking as though she is already there and I'm bring you to her. This convention is so frequently ignored that it makes little or no practical difference. But it may be that it reflects what people are imagining when they select one word or the other.
Bob Bridges said:
Just to nail down the obvious, the technical difference between "take" and "bring" is that "take" is in motion away from the speaker and "bring" is toward.
For some languages, the selection of the motion verbs, (VIDMs, Verb of Inherently Directed Motion: e.g. come, go, bring, take) follow rigid rules. In English, it is just not that simple.
Of course, there is the idea of physical or symbolic motion toward (for bring) and away (for take) from some point of reference. Still, I could find no credible source for English that stipulates that the point of reference is always the speaker. Quite the contrary. Many sources indicate that this is a complex issue, and the point of reference can often be the listener, or even something or someone else.
As a case in point, in speaking on the telephone to a sick friend in the hospital, would you tell them you will take them flowers, or would you tell them you will bring them flowers?
I'll take some flowers this afternoon.
I'll bring some flowers this afternoon.
Or, for more fun, to add a third party, and more possible points of reference:
I'm in New York till tomorrow, but John will bring some flowers for you from San Diego this afternoon.
I'm in New York till tomorrow, but John will take some flowers for you from San Diego this afternoon.
For other VIDMs, which would you shout when answering the ring of a doorbell:
I'm going!
I'm coming!
Different languages follow different rules for these choices.
It is this complex issue of point of reference which makes this an interesting question, and on which, in English, people have some limited freedom to differ. There have been lingustic studies on this topic, both within specific languages, and between sets of different languages.
Good point, Glenn; I would have been better off to say "bring" and "take" have to do with the direction of travel from or to without specifying that it was in the point of view of the speaker. I was tempted to argue, about the flowers, that if I say I'll bring them I'm still imagining myself there, anticipating having brought them to that place. But about the time I got to "I'm coming, I'm coming" to the doorbell, I gave up; it's clear I mean I'm coming from YOUR point of view, not from mine.
And, as I said, there are enough fuzzy examples that I'm convinced even that doesn't really pin it down. I don't think there is any pinning it down; we just say what we say, in this case, without having to mean anything very exact by it.
Different languages follow different rules....
That's what I like about languages, that they're different. Every time I learn a new language—ok, every time I tackle a new language, for I hardly ever stay long enough to say I've learned it—I discover some new way of doing things that I could never have invented myself. And every time I marvel "Wow, I never thought of doing it that way!", and love it. Like when I finally understood the French "en" and "y" (sort of prepositions, sort of pronouns), or the Scandinavian definite articles (in the form of noun suffixes), or all those Swahili prefixes, or the exhaustive Greek verb forms (Latin has 'em too but I learned Greek first), or the surprisingly, beautifully flexible Esperanto pronouns. There's always something to marvel at. The Spanish have two words for "to be", and lo and behold it turns out it's because they represent two different things! Classical Greek uses prepositions for nouns ("accomplished by the sacrifice of the having-been-loved"), and it works beautifully. Russian has one-letter words that are consonants, not vowels: Who'da thunk it? In Farsi, the very same verb endings that indicate person and number can be added to nouns to make them possessive and to adjectives to mean "to be": goftam, "I said", mikhoram, "I want", but also doostam, "my friend", and khoubam, "I'm good". As Adam Savage said, I love surprises!
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