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I've been thinking a little bit about "skedooley," and I wonder if we've been collectively creating a perfect example of beanplating. Could it be perhaps as simple as playful enjoyment of English, its rules and its numerous exceptions? I think it might fall into whatever pile includes "kinnn-iggot" (the Monty Python & Holy Grail pronunciation of "knight").
Some words just sound fun when intentionally butchered.
CheddarMelt said:
I've been thinking a little bit about "skedooley," and I wonder if we've been collectively creating a perfect example of beanplating. Could it be perhaps as simple as playful enjoyment of English, its rules and its numerous exceptions? I think it might fall into whatever pile includes "kinnn-iggot" (the Monty Python & Holy Grail pronunciation of "knight").
Some words just sound fun when intentionally butchered.
The bulb just went on! I loved Python's Holy Grail, seen it several times, but never caught that. Is that what the "knights that say 'kinnn-iggot'" was all about? Can't believe I missed that. I always thought it was just your typical Python nonsense word.
I can't believe the conversation has gotten this far without someone bringing up "swayve and de-BONE-er".
Ron and Heimhenge: I can't claim citizenship in Phoenix, but I worked there about a year and a half. My own inclinations run to cooler and greener, but I discovered while I was there that the desert is really and truly beautiful, in its own way. Especially on the way to visit my parents and sister's family in Tucson (my dad was dying of cancer that year, so that contract in Phoenix got me down there to see him every other weekend instead of every other year) I'd pull off the road somewhere south of Florence, just sit by my car and listen to the silence.
Also some of my favorite restaurants were there. And I miss the Indians' drive-in movie theatre, too, assuming it's still around.
Bob Bridges said:
Also some of my favorite restaurants were there. And I miss the Indians' drive-in movie theater, too, assuming it's still around.
Unfortunately, no. They all pretty much shut down in the 80s to 90s. I know there is at least one remaining somewhere out in Mesa/Tempe ... like a 6-plex or something. I never really heard a good explanation for the death of the drive-in movie business. One friend speculates that the real estate just got too valuable as the city grew, and the owners just took the money and ran. Pity. That was always a fun family outing for us, and for many decades, a real American institution.
A few more weird pronounciations:
It took me the longest time to realize that the spoken word I heard as "In-IO-late" was the word I was reading as "An-hilly-ate" - Annihilate. That's a disadvantage of reading too much - your reading vocabulary outpaces your spoken vocabulary.
Just last night, I overheard a guy mention that his son wanted to get a "tack-too". I wanted to ask him what a "Tack 2" was. A gun, motorcycle, video game? I finally figured out from context that he meant "tattoo." At one point he actually did say "tattoo" then immediately corrected himself and said "tack-too" again. I have never heard that pronounciation before. Is that a common pronounciation in some region? Anyone else heard it pronounced "tack-too?"
I just heard a new one, on an NPR story about suicides among female vets: "POIG-nant".
About the drive-in theater, Heimhenge, I hadn't last sight of the fact that they died out; I was talking about a last hold-out operated on the rez off east of town, and yes, down near Tempe. Let's look at Google Maps…yeah, here it is, just on the other side of McClintock where it crosses McKellips. I was there as a computer jock just before Y2K, and I remember it as having 5 screens (arranged on the rim of a circle facing inward) and costing about $5 for a double feature. They used very short-range FM for the sound, which not only is far superior in quality to the old speakers you used to hook on your window but also has to be a lot cheaper to maintain. And it enabled me once to change my mind about the movie I was watching, twiddle around the dial until I found the soundtrack for the next screen over and watch Star Trek: Insurrection instead.
I've never heard "tack-too", but I have, of course, heard people say we need to take a different tact. I've given up wincing when I hear it, but it still stands out to me.
Oh, about "tattoo" (pronounced so it sounds like "kazoo"): I used to hear the rule governing that strange slow-down in the Italian pronunciation of certain words, mostly those with doubled consonants, and I could never quite wrap my head about the way my tongue should handle them. We have a restaurant across from my hotel named "Maggiano's"; I understand that the 'i' is not pronounced except as it makes the 'g' soft ("mah-JOHN-oze", not "mah-djee-AHN-oze" or "mahgg-ee-AHN-oze"), but for a long time the nature of the double 'g' puzzled me, and the best I could do was add emphasis to the following syllable, trying to imitate the Italian melody.
Finally, and only about five years ago, I heard someone describe it in a way that made sense to me. Say "tenner" to yourself; the double 'n' doesn't (to the Anglophone) suggest anything except that the quality of the preceding 'e' is "eh" rather than "ee". But now say "penknife" to yourself, and notice how you pronounce both 'n' sounds. That is, you don't merge the two syllables together into "PEH-knife", but pronounce the two words separately, "pen knife", and thus the 'n' gets pronounced twice. For practice also try "fat tongue", "pick cup" and "car ride".
Now I can feel the correct pronunciation of "mullah": not like "mullet" at all, but as two words, "MULL lah". Same for "Allah", come to think of it: I just pretend to myself that "al" is the Arabic for "the" and pretend to myself that "al lah" means "the One", or some such, which enables me to say it correctly. (For all I know it does mean that; Arabic is not among my accomplishments.) And of course all those Italian double consonants are no longer a mystery to me either.
So is it possible that the English word "tattoo" is pronounced "tat too"? I've never thought about it before.
Bob,
That explanation makes sense, though the double sound in words like "penknife" and "car ride" is very, very subtle. It makes sense to think that the fellow I heard saying "tack too" was pronouncing the syllables the way the dictionary separates them. The k sound may have just been a personal affectation.
I think we (North) Americans do tend to run our syllables and words together, so that double sounds become single sounds, even when they're not supposed to. I was often rebuked by the Danish for not pausing enough between words. One time, when I said, "ti sekunder" ("ten seconds") they heard, "tisse koner" ("Piss wives" maybe not a standard vulgarity, but definitely not good). I was firmly instructed to never say that again.
I absolutely buy that about the Scandinavian languages. But try running your syllables close together in a Romance language like Italian, Spanish or (especially) French and you'll hear no complaints at all.
I once heard a friend describe a Viet Namese accent as essentially pronouncing every (English) syllable as a separate word, a subtly start-stop rhythm. When I look at how it's written, I think I can see why.
My wife watches a lot of those "house hunter" type shows, and I couldn't help but notice that when the realtors speaks of "comparables" to establish a reasonable price or offer, few say "kom' per a bulls" and most say "kom pare' a bulls."
The online dictionary suggests the former pronunciation, and that's what I've always used too (but I'm not in real estate).
I'm wondering if maybe this is a jargon thing among realtors, or perhaps something regional. Anyone got any ideas?
Telemath, the difference between "PEN-knife" and "PEN-ife" may be subtle—or between "car ride" and "car eyed". But try it with the emphasis on the second syllable: Compare "pen KNIFE" and "pehKNIFE", "coal LIED" and "collide", "right turn" and "return", "bell low" and "below". Nothing subtle (to my ear) about that.
Martha Barnette
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