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Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

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Proper (accurate origin of the) "bird"
EmmettRedd
859 Posts
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2010/07/18 - 2:40am

Like me, many of you have heard the origin of the "middle finger salute" as some (French?) king promising to cut off the middle finger of (English?) archers after he won the battle. This would keep them from practicing their craft and being an effective enemy. The archers won the battle and paraded around with the middle finger raised while hurling insults at the promising king. Then, the middle finger alone became the insult.

However, on Monday, our tour guide to Loch Ness commented on a "rude" gesture that a motorcyclist gave when passing on the narrow road (I did not see it) and gave the same story but with index and middle fingers both promised to be cut off. From being able to operate the bow and arrow, this actually makes more sense than just cutting off the middle finger. And, this cartoon from the Telegraph from Tuesday seems to verify the tour guide's story.

Did something get lost in the translation coming across the "pond"?

Emmett

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2010/07/18 - 11:25am

According to Wiki (for what it's worth) the "bird" goes back to early Roman times. Not much is said about its origins at Wiki, but I'm sure a web search would bring up many interesting variations on its origin. But if it does go back as far as Wiki says, then the origin may be lost in the fog of history. Here's the link to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_%28gesture%29

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2010/07/19 - 9:28am

That Wikipedia entry links to a UC Davis Law Review article, which provides a fair amount of history. The article repeats the archer story, but then debunks it.

EmmettRedd
859 Posts
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2010/07/29 - 8:51am

Thanks for the fuller history. However, after thinking about it some more, I wonder if the British varient (two fingers) DIRECTLY derives from the victorious English longbowmen taunting the French with their bowstring fingers after the Battle of Crecy in 1346. And that this story was misapplied as an explanation for the older middle finger sign.

What do you think?

Emmett

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