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pronunciaton of OFTEN
johng423
129 Posts
(Offline)
1
2009/10/20 - 12:51pm

In a recent podcast one caller pronounced OFTEN with the T ("off-ten" instead of "off-en"). Not the first time I've heard that, but can you tell us anything about how that pronunciation got started? Is it considered acceptable or correct?

Guest
2
2009/10/20 - 2:09pm

Merriam-Webster lists both pronunciations. If it were particularly frowned upon, they'd have some other notation indicating as such. M-W doesn't usually make such pronouncements themselves, though. Their position is just to report the facts that such usage/pronunciation exists.

I particularly like their last paragraph on pronunciation on their web page:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/help/faq/pronounce.htm

where they take exception to the notion of "correct" pronunciation.

Guest
3
2009/10/20 - 4:57pm

You may freely use either pronunciation, /ɔfən/ or /ɔftən/. Both pronunciations are listed in most dictionaries. I tend to use /ɔfən/ because I am an old fart (see mouses) . But I often hear /ɔftən/, usually from those younger than me. But, then, who isn't?
With soften /sɔfən/, however, there is no option to pronounce the t -- yet.

Guest
4
2009/10/20 - 6:14pm

It's often illuminating to use inductive tests when assessing the acceptability of pronunciation variants. There are other examples of speakers who enunciate inert consonants. For the word "salmon", do you find /sæl-mən/ to be equally as acceptable as /sæ-mən/? It's probably not as pervasive as /ɔftən/, but it's common enough in areas remote from salmon habitat. At what level of incidence does a "mispronunciation" become an "alternative pronunciation?" How about /swɔrd/ for "sword," /sʌb-təl/ for "subtle" or /æz-ðmʌ/ for "asthma?" There are almost certainly different standards of acceptability in the U.S. and the U.K for some of these. This again will ultimately come down to descriptivist vs. prescriptivist views, but I think at some point we have to admit that the enunciation of inert consonants is generally defective pronunciation, no matter how widely practiced.

Guest
5
2009/10/20 - 6:32pm

Puts me in mind of the Pirates of Penzance:

Major-General: I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
Pirate King: Often!
M-J: Yes, orphan. Have you ever known what it is to be one?
PK: I say, often.

Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
(Offline)
6
2009/10/21 - 10:05am

I think at some point we have to admit that the enunciation of inert consonants is generally defective pronunciation, no matter how widely practiced.

This is circular logic. If a consonant is pronounced, then it's not inert.

Guest
7
2009/10/21 - 10:18am

Does it vary by region? I am 31 and from MN/WI. I say "off-ten". Hearing "ofen" kind of bugs me, though a previous poster made a good point using the example "soften".

Guest
8
2009/10/21 - 10:52am

On a bit of a tangent, I have personally heard some from the Pennsylvania Dutch regions use offen as a verb, specifically:
Offen the light.
To mean "Turn the light off."
It is possible that this was said in jest, or as a mockery. If so, my apologies for perpetuating this.

Guest
9
2009/10/21 - 12:53pm

Grant Barrett said:

I think at some point we have to admit that the enunciation of inert consonants is generally defective pronunciation, no matter how widely practiced.

This is circular logic. If a consonant is pronounced, then it's not inert.


Not really. You're conflating enunciation with pronunciation. In phonetics the two terms are distinct. Enunciation has to do with the treatment of individual graphemes; pronunciation generally concerns the treatment of entire words. Pronunciation includes the possibility that a given grapheme will or will not be enunciated (phonated). For example, in the word "herb," the "h" can be enunciated or not, and either way is a correct pronunciation.

Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
(Offline)
10
2009/11/02 - 10:20am

Lux, the circularity is in the word "inert." A consonant that is enunciated is not inert in that particular pronunciation.

Guest
11
2009/11/02 - 12:10pm

I was an assistant language teacher in Japan and ran into this problem. It was in a middle school classroom where I was in the capacity of a native English speaker alongside the professional, Japanese teacher of English. I had to read an excerpt from the textbook that included the word "often." I pronounced the "t," as I do when I say the word slowly. I think when I say the word quickly, I omit the "t." I had never really thought about the inconsistency before. The Japanese teacher explained to me that she was taught NOT to pronounce the "t," so for consistency I tried to stick with her pronunciation even when reading slowly. It was a difficult thing to do, and felt odd to leave out the "t."

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