Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

Birchy said
"I ate ice cream and mashed potatoes and gravy" (gross to eat them all as one dish) vs. "I ate ice cream, mashed potatoes and gravy" (the ice cream is clearly eaten separate from the mashed potatoes and gravy).

Is this really an example of use of the Oxford comma? If not, what would you call it?

Peano's answer is correct, but I think you are asking a different question from what you wrote.

I think you are asking if an oxford comma would ever be acceptable in this sentence.  Even for people who believe that an oxford comma should always be used. 

The answer is that it depends on how you view mashed potatoes and gravy.  If you view it as a single dish, then a comma should never separate them.  But if you view them as two separate items, then an oxford comma would be appropriate. (If you believe oxford commas are ever appropriate.)

Please forgive me if I am assuming too much and you really meant exactly what you said.

tromboniator said: I am a strong advocate of the Oxford comma, because in my brain it almost invariably helps to clarify things ...

[So if "tromboniator" is at the beginning of a sentence, should I capitalize it? ]

I tend to default to using the Oxford comma too. In some cases it's essential to eliminate ambiguity. The classic example I often see online is the dedication:  To my parents, Ayn Rand and God. But if I spoke that dedication, knowing the meaning, I'd invariably insert a pause after "Rand" to avoid the confusion.

In some cases, it is indeed superfluous. An example of that is: I packed a tent, sleeping bag, tarp and gun.

In other cases, it can actually create ambiguity. Here's a great example: They went to Oregon with Betty, a maid, and a cook. Now that's just plain careless writing, since whatever is really meant, the sentence could be rewritten more clearly.

So even though I default to using the Oxford comma, I look at the sentence carefully, pronounce it aloud, and then decide to comma or not. If I find myself pausing when I speak the sentence I'll usually put the comma in there.

I wrote this really insightful response, bordering on brilliant. You'll have to take my word for it. Then my computer rebooted and I lost it. I don't have the energy to reproduce it.

For formal writing, I would rewrite the sentence.

For informal writing, I think "I ate ice cream and mashed potatoes and gravy" with no commas is fine. There is a natural reading provided by semantics. If you intend something other than the semantically natural reading, it is your responsibility to make that clear.

I say no commas because the structure is actually a compound of two elements, with one of the two elements again a nested compound of two elements. In conjoining two elements we don't use a comma in English. With two elements the question of a serial comma or Oxford comma does not come up, since no comma is used till you list three or more elements.

For formal writing, I think I would go with "I ate ice cream and mashed potatoes with gravy." While someone might argue there remains ambiguity, semantics clears it up. The sentence "I ate hamburger and pie" has the same opportunity for ambiguity (Was the hamburger mixed together with the pie?) but such a reading is completely unnatural due to the semantics. If you intend the dreadful mixture, it is on you to overcome the natural reading by writing something like "I ate ice cream and mashed potatoes and gravy all mixed together."

It is very conversational and informal. If it is the voice of the narrator then I would take it to be told in the voice of a verbal storytelling.

Robert said

The phone rang.  Go took one more sip of her beer and answered, gave an eyeroll and a smile.

'Go' is a woman, no problem there.  But the structure- what do you think of it?

Not much. I wouldn't emulate it.