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In a recent Talk of the Nation episode, New York Times writer Natalie Angier was interviewed regarding the usage of the honorific 'Ma'am'. In her article the writer discussed her dissatisfaction with being called Ma'am. Her position is that the absence of the honorific would be preferable to the perceived connotations.
This being the perfect forum for discussing the usage, I am throwing it out and starting the ball rolling.
I use Ma'am. I think of it as a term of respect applicable for any adult female much as I would use Sir for any adult male. Much like the any other kind of manners, I think that this fits into the class of 'social lubrication' and works for any formal or semi formal occasion.
I know that there are regional differences, and also class differences for it's usage, however I think the loss of Ma'am has become a casualty of the over familiarization of our culture.
What are the thoughts?
Seems to me the connotation she is concerned about is the fact that "ma'am" is a shortened version of "madam." This from the online dictionary:
madam [ˈmædəm]
n pl madams for sense 1, mesdames [ˈmeɪˌdæm]
1. a polite term of address for a woman, esp one considered to be of relatively high social status
2. a woman who runs a brothel
3. Brit informal a precocious or pompous little girl
4. South African informal the. the lady of the house
[from Old French ma dame my lady]
So if you take the #1 listed meaning, no worries. But it might be the #2 meaning that concerns her. I have no idea how often they update usage stats, and I wonder how it is ranked in other sources (which I do not have the time to check today).
The use of "sir" is much less an issue. And replacing "ma'am" with "m'lady" sounds downright archaic.
It could be I'm too quick to assume, but I suspect the connotations she's perceiving are self-inflicted. I'm with Phil: I was brought up to use it as a term of respect.
By the way, no one ever told me that "Miss" is for young women and "Madam" for old; the way I see it, "Miss" is for unmarried women and "Madam" for married.
Sure, "Miss" (or "Ms") is used for an unmarried woman. But if that woman was older than me, I would feel a bit uncomfortable addressing her as "Miss." That's probably my problem. The woman might like it though. Can't see any offensive connotations there.
Come to think of it, that "Ms" thing was big back in the 70s due to "political correctness" pushed by NOW. Haven't heard it much lately though. I wonder if it's dropped out of common usage?
Definitely not, at least nowhere I've noticed. I travel around the country, and "Ms" seems to me to have settled into standard usage.
Now, about the time that was happening I had just moved to North Carolina—and in the South, "Mizz" is the pronunciation of both "Mrs" and "Miss". So Southerners may have resisted the imposition of the politically correct "Ms", but it didn't have any effect on the spoken language at all. I lived there a few decades before I started traveling around the country again, so it's very possible that "Ms" has died away elsewhere and I just haven't noticed yet.
I actually work in a customer service / technical support phone job and talk to people from all over the US and Canada. I am from Texas (born here and lived here my entire life) so ma'am is just something you say! ALL THE TIME! I have had several customers get really upset at me for the use of ma'am or sir when talking to them. I can see their point I guess, but I always tell them "sorry I am from Texas so I can't promise it won't slip out again" and that seems to put them at a bit of ease about it.
No need. If she's a feminist ("A misogynist is someone who thinks feminists are typical of women", that kind of feminist), she's upset that you addressed her with a sexist term. But most of them are made uncomfortable, or at least feel that they ought to be uncomfortable, at undemocratic notions such as respectful titles: "I'm no better than you and I won't have you implying that I am!". Usually it's expressed as an age objection: " 'Sir' was my father." But my settled suspicion is that it's really the other thing.
Something that I've heard from female teachers is that 'Miss' or 'Ma'am' can be seen as disrespectful in the sense that the student is failing to address them by their full title (Mrs. Jones). Personally, I am only sensitive to "Ma'am" when it is clearly said in a patronizing way. This happens on both sides of the service industry when tensions run high. The number one reason older woman are sensitive to 'Ma'am', I think, is because it points out their age (as people have been saying).
I was born in NY and lived in Tennessee.
In NY, I never use ma'am. It means you're calling someone old. Never, ever call a 30-something "ma'am."
In TN, I use it because it's plain old propriety. "Please, " thank you," and "ma'am."
Cultural thing. We have those. Oh, funny: I'm in one of those tediously long-term relationships (just get married already!) with a southern guy. I've had to wean him off of "ma'am" while outside of the south. How? Use "miss" instead. It always gets a delighted reaction from ladies.
Anytime you use language, there is cultural baggage. I take after my father, who often would call the waitresses in coffee shops and diners "darlin'" or "honey". The less formal nature of the business as well as my father's pragmatic tradesman sensibilities worked made it all natural. I do it myself in some greasy spoons and coffee shops. If I am in a restaurant that is more upscale, I tend to use Ma'am.
From the responses we can make the following assumptions:
1)Ma'am is still considered an honorific.
2)Those who oppose the use of 'Ma'am' as an honorific are usually bringing in their own biases.
3)Polite speech is not dead, although political correctness seems to have put a hurtin' on it.
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
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