Home » Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

Discussion Forum (Archived)

Please consider registering
Guest
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
The forums are currently locked and only available for read only access
sp_TopicIcon
It's too much
Guest
1
2012/08/01 - 6:11am

It has become just too much for me! I seem to continually notice people in forums or comments on the Internet using the word "to" when they obviously (to me) should use "too". Is this only obvious to me or is the word "too" falling into disuse.
Does it matter? I'm sure that nothing can be done about it but it suggests to me a literacy devolution. Surely (Don't call me Shirley?) this is not the first time in linguistic history that some homophones have fallen into disuse. Is it possible that with the prolific incorrect visual use on the words "too" and "to" that "too" will simply stop being used in a century or two, or to, or too?

Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
(Offline)
2
2012/08/01 - 6:20am

Homophonic errors are a real bear of a problem -- but it's worse in French. 🙂

There's no evidence of the different /tu/ words becoming one. But when I start to see more errors in what I'm reading, I try to correct for that by changing my reading habits to include more higher-quality writing and less low-quality writing. It's not always possible, I know. Blocking all Google results from Yahoo Answers was a huge annoyance-avoider. Blocking comments on YouTube is another. This Chrome extension will block comments there and many other places. Reading more things like Lapham's Quarterly also provides relief.

Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
(Offline)
3
2012/08/01 - 6:27am

These two sites do a very good job of aggregating high-quality writing:

Brain Pickings

Arts & Letters Daily

These, too, can bring some of the best writing to your attention:

Longreads

Longform

The Feature (formerly Give Me Something to Read)

Guest
4
2012/08/01 - 6:40am

I appreciate your reply. I feel relieved that it isn't just me. Of course I used to be terribly negligent of grammar use until I married a teacher (38 yrs ago) and after a couple of decades "something" finally sunk in.

You said, "There's no evidence of the different /tu/ words becoming one", but do you know of anything similar where the homophones really have disappeared? Just wondering...

Guest
5
2012/08/02 - 8:46am

Some words do change over time—but slowly, slowly.   Words like "scuba", "laser" and "radar", which used to be spelled as acronyms ("SCUBA") are now treated as normal words.   Words such as "through" and "bight" are no longer pronounced anything like they used to be, but their spelling (in English, at least) is retained.   I've read that in a few words there has been a curious migration of the initial 'n', so that what used to be "a norange" is now spelled "an orange", and very few ever hear that it was ever otherwise.

But off-hand I can't think of a case where two homonyms have merged.   I would guess that's because they still have separate meanings so their different spellings is useful.   Your "to" and "too" is a good example; it'd be one thing if their meanings were so close that the distinction is difficult to remember, but enough careful writers are around to complain about their misuse that I agree with Grant:   I don't see any sign that the distinction is going away.

What probably is happening is that the internet is making available to us the thoughts (so to speak) of a good many more writers, some of them pretty bad; so we're seeing a lot more careless writing.   I don't think that will lead to the degradation of what is thought of as good writing.   It might lead in the other direction, to greater emphasis on good writing and therefore to better writing in general.   But I wouldn't bet on it.

Guest
6
2012/08/02 - 1:42pm

You can likely find these common animals in a dictionary where you find two separate entries in the dictionary for the same word. Some dictionaries will have a "homonym number." In several of these cases, the etymologies, completely distinct, point to times when the spellings were different, but then collapsed together.

E.g. letter (noun).

Guest
7
2012/08/02 - 1:59pm

Wait, did I misuse "homonym"?   There are a) words that sound alike but are spelled differently ("to", "too" and "two"); there are also b) words that are pronounced alike and are spelled the same too (yet are nevertheless different words, such as "bear" and "bear").   A and B are referred to by two different terms; I wrote "homonym" in my previous post meaning group A, but Glenn is talking about B.   Which is which?

Oh, wait, I remember:   Homophones are words that sound alike; homonyms are spelled alike also.   So I did misuse the term; sorry, all, I got confused.

Guest
8
2012/08/03 - 3:26pm

Oh yeah ... very easy to get those confused. I still struggle with the exact definitions. Wiki actually does a pretty good job explaining it (Venn diagram style) here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym

I bet if I'd taken Latin, as my HS counselor advised, this would all be a lot more clear to me.   🙂

Hey Grant: Why can't I find Arizona (which is always MST) in your time stamp options?

Guest
9
2012/08/06 - 8:51am

Or Greek.   I took two years of college Greek (I started out as a religion major) and still read the NT, sort of.   But that didn't save me from confusing this one.

In case anyone cares, the homo- prefix is from a Greek prefix meaning "same"; it's where we get "homogenous" and "homologue".   (The homo- prefix in Greek is unrelated to the noun homo in Latin, which I think means simply "man", as in Homo sapiens, "thinking man".   But I don't know Latin well; someone may correct me and I'll take it quietly.)   The -onym suffix is from the Greek word for "name", and -phone is from "voice", or metaphorically any sound.   A homonym is a word that is spelled the same as another; a homophone is a word that's pronounced like another, even though they're spelled differently.

JerryP already gave us an example of homophones in "to" and "too".   Anyone familiar with English will be able to think of many others. Just for fun I'll toss in "merry" and "marry" (and "Mary", if you like); they're pronounced differently in some parts of the English-speaking world, but in the American midwest, where I grew up, they're all pronounced alike.

A true homonym is a word that is spelled like another but has a different etymology, eg "stalk".   Personally I'd say "pole" is another example, although you may insist that "pole" and "Pole" are not the same spelling.

Useless factoid: If anyone ever complains "Wait a minute—it says here that the Greek word phonos is 'murder', not 'voice' or 'sound'!", he's partly right.   In Greek there are two vowels that we transliterate to an 'o' in English, the omikron (ο) and the omega (ω).   The Greek word for "murder" is φόνος; the word for "voice" (or "sound") is φωνή.

Forum Timezone: UTC -7
Show Stats
Administrators:
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Moderators:
Grant Barrett
Top Posters:
Newest Members:
A Conversation with Dr Astein Osei
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 1
Topics: 3647
Posts: 18912

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 618
Members: 1268
Moderators: 1
Admins: 2
Most Users Ever Online: 1147
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 118
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Recent posts