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it's not me and you it's you and I
Guest
1
2010/07/04 - 11:27am

I have noticed, and am being driven crazy, by the misuse of this term. I constantly hear people saying "me and my wife went to the concert" etc.; this was even used as the title of an article in Vanity Fair magazine "Me and Mrs. Palin" by Levi Johnson. Why has this use become so common? Does anyone think this has become acceptable or I am the only one who finds this so grating?

Guest
2
2010/07/05 - 12:21pm

I don't think that "me and x" has become acceptable in formal writing, but it has been common in casual conversation for many, many decades.

I haven't seen or read the article you saw in Vainity Fair, but I wouldn't write the title unless it was an allusion to the R&B song Me and Mrs. Jones. On the other hand, I can't think of any good reason why anyone would call that song to mind given the article's topic, unless there is some news I haven't heard.

Maybe the magazine was just trying to communicate a certain je ne sais rien regarding the author.

The song, while dating back to 1972, was recorded by Michael Buble a few years ago.

Billy Paul performing Me and Mrs. Jones (1972)
Michael Buble performing Me and Mrs. Jones (2007)

Ron Draney
721 Posts
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3
2010/07/05 - 12:41pm

Note that a few years before Billy Paul, Kris Kristofferson wrote (and Janis Joplin recorded) "Me and Bobby McGee", which within the context of the lyrics is the grammatically correct form.

Guest
4
2010/07/05 - 12:45pm

While the me might be correct, my grammar school teachers would have red-inked that one into "Bobby McGee and Me." We were forced into the order of 2nd person, then 3rd person, then 1st person. However, none of my grammar teachers ever wrote even one hit song.

Creativity, by nature, defies the rules.

torpeau
Left coast of FL
97 Posts
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5
2010/07/05 - 12:53pm

teperkins said:

I have noticed, and am being driven crazy, by the misuse of this term. I constantly hear people saying "me and my wife went to the concert" etc.; this was even used as the title of an article in Vanity Fair magazine "Me and Mrs. Palin" by Levi Johnson. Why has this use become so common? Does anyone think this has become acceptable or I am the only one who finds this so grating?


Someone once pointed out to me, right or wrong, that putting yourself first wasn't bad English, it was simply bad manners.

Of course, assuming there's no concern about manners, it would be: "I and my wife went to the concert."

Ron Draney
721 Posts
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6
2010/07/05 - 2:12pm

Manners be hanged! We're concerned here with grammar and syntax, not social convention. Otherwise you'll have people complaining about "the brown small dog" and such.

Guest
7
2010/07/11 - 5:44pm

What you are talking about, teperkins, grates on me, too, but we're probably fighting a losing battle. I hear it all the time, and I've never corrected anyone about it. I've even taught my ESL students that the usage of "me and . . ." as a subject is widely-used idiom in American English (the point of my instruction is to help my students communicate in the world in which they live, after all).

On another note, I find the overcorrection for this ungrammatical speech interesting, as well. I hear many people use something like "you and I" when it is in fact an object of a verb or prepositional phrase. When used in the objective sense "me and you" or "you and me" is grammatical, but many people who would consider themselves cognoscenti have been so indoctrinated in the "you and I" usage that they use it even when it's improper. Maybe I just find it interesting because I'm a nerd . . . .

On a related point, in reference to earlier posts on this topic, in both the songs "Me and Mrs. Jones" and "Me and Bobby McGee", the phrase, though truncated for the song-title, is actually used as an object of a prepositional phrase (e.g., "good enough for me and Bobby McGee"), and, hence, the construction is perfectly grammatical.

Guest
8
2010/07/12 - 3:28am

You are right that "me and Bobby Mcgee" is used as a compound object. However "me and Mrs. Jones" is used as a subject throughout the song. The song's refrain is "Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing goin' on." Such constructions are common in vernacular.


tunawrites said:

On another note, I find the overcorrection for this ungrammatical speech interesting, as well. I hear many people use something like "you and I" when it is in fact an object of a verb or prepositional phrase. When used in the objective sense "me and you" or "you and me" is grammatical, but many people who would consider themselves cognoscenti have been so indoctrinated in the "you and I" usage that they use it even when it's improper. Maybe I just find it interesting because I'm a nerd . . . .

I am right with you on this. For me, while the "Mom, me and Bobby are goin' to the park." has a warmth to it, the hypercorrected " … come see Jack or I … " sends shivers down my spine. But I'm a nerd, too.

Guest
9
2010/07/26 - 3:52pm

I'm told that when my great grandfather heard someone refer to "me and [Joey]," he would say something like, "Why are you calling [Joey] mean?" My kids hate it when I respond that way.

Guest
10
2010/08/14 - 10:59am

LOL! That's a father talking, for sure!

I never hear "me and so-and-so" as the subject of a sentence any more; you guys have me wondering whether it's going on around me all the time and I just never notice. What I hear is the opposite, phrases like "just between you and I". My theory is this: A whole generation of kids (mine) ran into the house yelling out "Mom, can me and Scott go over to his house and—", and our various mothers would correct " 'Can Scott and I go...' ". "Yeah, yeah, can Scott and I go over to his house and play basketball?" So this entire generation (mine) grew up thinking that the rule is "never 'me and Scott', always 'Scott and I'."

At least, this is the most reasonable explanation I can come up with for the fact that many people can correctly say "He read me the riot act" but seem incapable of doing it with multiple objects ("He read Tom and I the riot act").

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