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I moved to southeastern Wisconsin from northwestern Wisconsin about a year ago (crossing a dialect boundary). I'm a speech-language pathologist, and over the past year I've heard many of my students say, "I'm going by so-and-so's house" instead of "I'm going to...." I asked my colleagues if this is a regional thing, and they said no. But I hear it so often I'm beginning to wonder if it's regional, and/or generational (similar to "on accident" and "by accident"). Granted, my students have language impairments, but even my articulation students use it. Anyone have any information about this?
In the Philadelphia area (where I was raised) I'm going by would not be uncommon. It would carry a nuance of a short stop as compared to I'm going to.
When I went to college, I was made aware of what might be a Philadelphia local equivalent: I'm going over Mary's house for dinner. (Not over to, although that would not be odd. It's just that the to could be, and often was, omitted. My college roommates saw visions of hot-air balloons wafting overhead.)
I have lived in several different states, and I have been in several different countries. Only in Wisconsin have I heard "I am going by someone's house" Sometimes they will say that they are going "down by someone's house." I would say that it is a regional thing, but only because of my experience living there for over half my life.
Then there's the British "I'm going down the shops". American usage senses something missing here: don't you mean down
- to
the shops? But the people who use it don't think of it as a shortened version of something else.
I'm also reminded of the Milwaukee(?)ism "can I come with?" I first heard this from a small child and assumed it was a bit of baby-talk he hadn't yet got shed of (it didn't help that he pronounced the last word "wiff"). Only later did I discover that people all over the upper Midwest encounter this every day and don't give it a second thought.
Ron, I use "Wanna come with?" or "Can I come with?" all the time. It wasn't until maybe 10 years ago that I learned it odd. Why is that? Is it because it should be "Wanna come with me?" and "Can I gowithyou?"
My pet-peeve is kind of along these lines...I hate hearing, "Where you at?" It's like nails on a chalkboard.
Don't even get started on Wisconsin and the use of the words lend and borrow. I don't think that I even find it strange anymore for someone to ask if I can come or go with. At one time it bothered me, but now it's just part of where I grew up. However, the misuse of lend and borrow still drivs me crazy, and I've only heard it done in WI.
I had teachers all throughout school ask questions like, "Will you borrow me a piece of paper?" They thought and taught that it was correct English by using it in the classroom. I once had an argument with another kid at school. She asked, "Will you borrow me a pencil?" I said, "Sure, but the correct word is lend. Will you lend me a pencil?" She replied that lend isn't even a real word, so I grabbed a dictionary and looked it up. After reading the word and definition out loud, she replied, "Just because it is in the Dicitonary that doesn't make it a word." I still find this funny and sad.
Speaking of the lend/borrow confusion, I ran across a similar thing. I hosted a person from France for the summer once and she would use take/bring in ways that sounded odd to me ... I would never use them the way she did but I couldn't really come up with why or say that they were 'wrong'...just odd-sounding.
One example: He will bring me to the lake tomorrow.
I would say "He will take me to the lake tomorrow."
Generally, I would take something somewhere else and bring something here.
-- Take your shoes to your room. (shoes are here, room is there)
-- Bring the plate downstairs. (plate is there, downstairs is here)
In the following case, neither sounds particularly 'wrong' to me. But I would be more likely to use the first one.
-- I will take chips to the party.
-- I will bring chips to the party.
(in both cases, I'm here and the party is somewhere else. I'd be more likely to use the second one if I were talking to the party host, though)
Is there a difinitive answer to the take/bring question like with borrow/lend?
ArteNow
The take / bring distinction, like the come / go distinction, relies on differences in point of reference relative to the motion. Some of these differences can be very subtle.
I agree with all of ArteNow's judgments.
But I would add that there may be more factors playing into the decision, the point of reference, than just two. The point of reference may relate to my current location or my expected future location (My son will take me to Sue's house for the holidays.), to the current location of the person I am speaking to or to their expected future location, etc. (My son will bring me to your house for the holidays.) It may also relate to the structure of the sentence.
If, for example, I am speaking to someone while we are commuting on the train — someone not even invited to ArteNow's party — I might easily say:
I have to work late so, while everyone else is enjoying the dinner, I will bring the dessert.
The sentence structure places the point of reference at the future party, even though nobody in the conversation, nor the object, will actually be at the party at the time of the action.
If I say
I have to work late so, while everyone else is enjoying the dinner, I will take the dessert.
it almost sounds like I expect to be so annoyed by my working late that I plan to spoil everyone's fun by swiping the sweets.
If I change the sentence to establish work as the point of reference, then take sounds less larcenous:
While everyone else is enjoying the dinner, I will just be leaving work, so I plan to take the dessert.
Word Nerd said:
Isn't it implied, "Do you wanna come with [me, us]"
After thinking about it, I understand how weird, "Can I come with?" It's like "lend/borrow"...You can come with me, I can go with you.
My understanding is that this is a leftover from German, one of the primary languages spoken in Wisconsin in the 19th century. I don't speak German so I'm not sure how or why, but that's what I read somewhere.
I'm in the Madison area, and I've always heard "go by" or "stop by." I've also heard "by you" to mean "in your area" as in "How's the weather by you?" or "I heard there was a car accident out by you." I'm not sure it's a Wisconsin thing particularly but definitely a part of some dialect.
John Spartz just presented on "come with" at the American Dialect Society conference in Baltimore in January. Interesting stuff. Looks like that's what his dissertation will be about.
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
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