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In English, there are not so many instances of complete sentences that are separated by comma, like:
He wears jeans, Tuesdays are casual day.
Is there a rule against that taught in school ? Just a tacit custom of English? Or is that particularly bad or strange at all?
(More commonly it's for dramatic effects: They fought, they fuzzed, they made up. But that's about all.)
Robert said
In English, there are not so many instances of complete sentences that are separated by comma, like:
He wears jeans, Tuesdays are casual day.
Is there a rule against that taught in school ? Just a tacit custom of English? Or is that particularly bad or strange at all?
(More commonly it's for dramatic effects: They fought, they fuzzed, they made up. But that's about all.)
When I was in high school over 40 years ago, it was wrong and called a comma-splice. Since then, I have found that the semicolon is what should be used, as in, "They fought; they fuzzed; they made up."
You know, I was just noticing that recently. Seems I see less and less use of the semicolon, though it's still "legal" punctuation when you need to join two or more independent clauses. I rarely use them myself. I think that, especially for online content, people are tending to follow the rule of thumb that simpler and shorter sentences are just more readable. If you write a paragraph of text using semicolons, and an identical paragraph using separate sentences, you'll find that it will score as "more readable" on websites that test readability. Here's one that I often use: https://readability-score.com/
In the late 1950s the harsh task-mistresses of the Seattle Public Schools demanded that independent clauses be separated by a semi-colon; now they do look a bit clunky: “They fought; they fuzzed; they made up.”
Perhaps Kurt Vonnegut has something to do with this. He wrote: “Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college.” (from A Man Without a Country, 2005)
Lest this be taken too seriously, here's what followed:
"And I realize some of you may be having trouble deciding whether I am kidding or not. So from now on I will tell you when I'm kidding."
faresomeness said
In the late 1950s the harsh task-mistresses of the Seattle Public Schools demanded that independent clauses be separated by a semi-colon; now they do look a bit clunky: “They fought; they fuzzed; they made up.”
Perhaps Kurt Vonnegut has something to do with this. He wrote: “Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college.” (from A Man Without a Country, 2005)
Lest this be taken too seriously, here's what followed:
"And I realize some of you may be having trouble deciding whether I am kidding or not. So from now on I will tell you when I'm kidding."
I do not know whether Kurt was kidding or not, but I am hung up on the logic of his statement. A transvestite is someone who tries to pass oneself off as a member of the opposite sex. Since a hermaphrodite is both sexes, how can s/he pass her/himself off as a member of the opposite sex?
Vonnegut likely was kidding- and apparently he did use a semi-colon, or two, in A Man Without a Country.
About the logic of a transvestite hermaphrodite maybe he was thinking about the Tralfamadorans. In Slaughterhouse Five they tell Billy Pilgrim that on earth there are actually seven sexes, all necessary to the production of children.
Looking up ";" on Google yields some interesting results; Laurie Rozakis in the Complete Idiot's Guide to Grammer and Style calls it the "love child of the comma and the period."
And this, from Bill Walsh in Lapsing into a Comma (2000): "The semicolon is an ugly bastard, and thus I tend to avoid it. Its utility in patching together two closely related sentences is to be admired, but patches like that should be a make-do solution, to be used when nothing better comes to mind."
Walsh has also written The Elephants of Style (2004); and Yes, I Could Care Less (2013).
I am indebted to Google for these gleanings, but even more to A Way With Words, for all the lively talk about the language. Let's not let the recent requests for financial support get buried in all these minutiae!
Robert said
Is there a rule against that taught in school ?
It's called a comma splice. At the link, see "Acceptable uses."
Robert said
With some of those examples, there is really no option but comma:The gate swung apart, the bridge fell, the portcullis was drawn up.
There's something wrong with "The gate swung open, the bridge fell, and the portcullis was drawn up"?
I have no problem with writers breaking the rules in order to accomplish a given task; the cadence of a sentence can be highly important. On the other hand, most of the time I see comma splicing done, it's by someone who doesn't know any better. I learned from my father's example that one should never curse casually, because someday, you're really going to need to swear, and if you've worn out all your curse words, what are you going to say then? Similarly, I don't use comma splice unless I amsotively, posailutely have to get a specific message across and only a comma splice will do.
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