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Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

A Way with Words, a radio show and podcast about language and linguistics.

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Almost Up to Possible (full episode)
Wendy in Oregon
21
2009/01/30 - 2:28pm

As I mentioned in a separate post, I learned about 'possible' as a Candy Striper. The nurse's instructions for bathing male patients were to start at the head and wash down as far as possible, then start at the feet and wash up as far as possible, then hand him the washcloth and tell HIM to wash possible. What do you want to bet this was a common joke between nurses and patients in military hospitals in WWII? I'd wager that it spread like hotcakes there and has been popping up in various bastardized and confusing forms ever since...

ablestmage
Wichita Falls, TX
31 Posts
(Offline)
22
2009/04/20 - 8:59pm

The first time I heard canvassing was related to either evangelical canvassing, canvassing for neutral informative door-to-door distribution of knowledge, such as whether one is register to vote -- not about promotion of a particular party, or in boy/girl scouting for canvassing the neighborhood in regard to fund raisers or good-doing opportunities..

Guest
23
2009/04/21 - 10:23am

Go-Aheads, My Dad was a Navy man and always called flip flops go-aheads. We thought it was a navy slang. You really can't go backwards in them can you?

Guest
24
2009/04/21 - 2:08pm

Re: Going Commando

The wet-army-underwear-in-the-jungle explanation makes some sense.

Outerwear uniforms in Vietnam, or "jungle fatigues", were made of a fairly fast-drying fabric blend, and were loose fitting and well-ventilated, being designed for the monsoon climate. For example, all eleven pockets had drain holes to prevent filling with water.

GI underwear (olive-drab boxers) were more absorbent than outer layers, and if wet would tend to stay wet, partly due to the fabric, and partly by being shielded from the air by the outer pants.

I can't say I actually heard that "commando" usage while in the Army, but then again, I was in the Signal Corps, not the Infantry, so I tended to get wet less frequently. Still, during the monsoon season, nobody's butt stayed dry.

Guest
25
2009/04/21 - 5:13pm

I have never heard the term "bird bath" unless it was referring to a shallow bowl for birds to bathe in. Our expression was "spit bath". Kinda crude admittedly but quite descriptive.
That is just about how I felt when I had to wash up that way. frown
Beverly A.

johng423
129 Posts
(Offline)
26
2009/04/28 - 10:41am

Here are various ways I have heard the word "thong" used: (1) beach slippers, AKA flip-flops, go-aheads; (2) skimpy underwear that barely covers private parts (not usually a topic of conversation in my circles); and my personal favorite, (3) "what Thinatra things".

stevenz
Auckland
30 Posts
(Offline)
27
2009/05/08 - 10:41pm

An historic.

My take on this has always been that we (can) use "an" before "historic" because the accent is on the second syllable, so the "h" can be swallowed. There are corollaries to this. In French, "liaison" allows pronunciation of a terminal consonant that would not otherwise be pronounced when preceding a word beginning with a vowel. e.g., les ouefs (more than one egg) is pronounced "laze oof" (more or less). But les chiens (more than one dog) is pronounced "lay chien." New Englanders put an R between a word ending in a vowel and one beginning with a vowel. E.g., John Kennedy might have said (and almost surely did), "the missiles in Cubar are a threat."

So "an historic" is a way to merge the words without an abrupt intake of breath to then hiss the "his." It's a liaison of sorts and we should be quite comfortable as pronuciation shortcut. We don't say "an hippy" because "hippy" is stressed on the first syllable so the liaison isn't necessary. I think "an historic" is fine.

Guest
28
2009/05/09 - 6:48am

*An humane treatment? *An humongous disaster? *An horrific development?

What rules could force or allow *”an historical event” but not also *”an hysterical response”?

I, for one, don't typically take in a breath between “a” and “historic.” And most people say “a holistic treatment” without any trouble.

I have no issue with dialectic differences, such as “Anner and I”, but they are rather more consistent than the one you theorize here. Am I claiming a heretical ( not *”an heretical”) view? This “an historic” thing really defies natural explanation, since nobody does this thing in any similar phonetic, articulatory, or grammatical context that I have seen. Is this a hyperbolic statement?

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
(Offline)
29
2009/05/10 - 7:46pm

Johng: Ouch!

Sbranca, I have to admit that "an historic" is easier to say. Wonder what the "proper" pronunciation will be in 100 years? Are we trending toward "an"?

Guest
30
2009/05/11 - 9:04am

Martha, as host, always quick to supply a(n) hospitable response and promote a(n) harmonious atmosphere.

stevenz
Auckland
30 Posts
(Offline)
31
2009/05/12 - 4:20am

Perhaps there could be an episode on consistency - or lack thereof - in language usage.

Guest
32
2009/05/12 - 4:43am

Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. We may even be agreeing on the central point, although maybe not some others. Allow me to clarify my position.

I don't have any problem with using “an” with “historic” if a person truly starts “historic” with a vowel sound ('istoric) for whatever reason: historic, ease of pronunciation, or otherwise. That does follow as a dialectic pronunciation and the use of “an” is a natural effect — consider British “a herb” (with aspiration) and American “an herb” (pronounced ‘erb, without aspiration).

However, more often in my experience with “an historic” I hear people following “an” with full, or even exaggerated, aspiration. It seems studied and unnatural even to the person doing it. Somehow, they think it SHOULD be that way, and they are forcing their speaking to do that unnaturally. “Historic” is the only such word they treat that way.

When I've had the opportunity, I have asked folks after they do it. They admit it sounds bad and feels unnatural to pronounce, but they think it is “correct.” Some think it is more sophisticated or more educated. They aren't very sure why they think that, or where they picked it up.

It is this use of “an” followed by fully aspirated “historic” that I find so perplexing and inexplicable. I support anyone whose dialect pronounces ‘istoric and uses “an”. Likewise folks who say “hindividual” who use “a”. To me, these things are consistent within the context.

Ron Draney
721 Posts
(Offline)
33
2009/05/12 - 9:31am

I'm an American speaker, subspecies West Coast, and I do say "an historic". I also use "an" before other H-words with unstressed initial syllables: "an hysterical outburst", "an heuristic algorithm", "an hospitable greeting".

I don't pronounce the H in "herb", but I do in some of its derivatives, and it's certainly "a herbivore" but "an herbivorous species" for me.

Guest
34
2009/05/12 - 10:00am

Here are some credible, public examples of three different pronunciations: “an ‘istoric”; “a historic”; and “an historic”. The only one that confuses me is “an historic” with the aspirated “h”.

I believe it was the “an historic” aspirated pronunciation at question in the broadcast, although all three pronunciations are discussed. I further think I am agreeing with both Grant and Martha as they express their opinions in the broadcast. But, it may be that Martha has changed her mind on this based on her post above.

It may also be that we were misunderstanding each other on the pivotal point of aspiration because of the limitations of the text medium and notation.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/evening-news-online-010709/4083625993 (”an ‘istoric”: 0:17; Katie Couric)

(both “an historic” and “a historic”: 0:03-0:07; several reporters)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBgFCqPSzgA (”an historic”: 1:08; John McCain)

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