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How and when did this most irritating phrase in the English language originate? We could argue about whether it's correct I suppose, but that's a "whole nother thing" isn't it? If something can be a "whole nother" thing, can something else be just part of a nother? And what exactly is a "nother" anyway? Can I slice a couple of "nothers" and mix the parts up to get another whole nother? Or a whole nother nother? Would that be a whole nother thing, or the same nother as before, only with new parts?
Another whole way of looking at it would be to use proper English to start with! But that's a whole nother thing I guess...
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What!?!?! How come I NEVER remember hearing "a whole nother" until about the last 20 years?? I can't be-friggin-lieve that's actually a recognized 'thing' in English. No wonder this language is so utterly baffling to non-native speakers. It's utterly baffling to me, and I *am* a native speaker. The concept may have been around since the 16th Century, but it's still just wrong. Posi-friggin-tively wrong.
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I gotta agree with Butch on this one. Sure, it's got a name (tmesis) to define what it is, but I don't like what it does to the language. Of course usage dictates evolution, but this just opens too many holes in meaning. Exactly where is the dividing line between poetic license and proper grammar? Is "tmesis" just "word play" or is it evolution? Sorry, but I don't like it.
In the words of Ned Flanders, it just sounds in-frikkin'-correct.
Nonetheless, I bet you would be hard pressed to find fault in any of these words: apron, adder, auger, newt, nickname, notch. There are others. Perhaps needless to say, the ones starting with a vowel historically had initial n that got lopped off by redivision:
e.g. a nap(e)ron became an ap(e)ron.
The ones starting with an n enjoyed the reverse form of redivision, much like our phrase in question.
I think, at least in the case of the word list above, you would have to concede this process is part of the evolution of English. Who knows if nother will stick as these others (zothers?) did? It does seem to have quite a bit of staying power.
"A whole nother" has attained a meaning in the language as a phrase. You can't parse "nother" by itself.
Sure, you could say "another whole thing" and be grammatically traditional. However, it doesn't mean the same. Whole doesn't apply to thing, it applies to the "anotherness". So, you could say that is "wholly another thing". THAT'S the best meaning, traditionally expressed.
But it uses -ly, and those are going away too...
(growling some more?)
Yeah, I miss -ly adverbs, but they're toast. It's like a gnat stopping a bursting dam. I think they HAD to move "whole" inside "another" when "wholly" lost its suffix.
(And when my kids say they're "doing good", I ask them how many of the hungry they fed today, or naked clothed, or homeless housed. (Sometimes, I ask them about feeding the naked and clothing the homeless, to see if they're listening.) Then they roll their eyes and tell me they're "doing well", and go back to their friends who are all "doing good".)
A Whole Nother is here to stay. (Until it evolves...)
Ron Draney said:
That's nice, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that any word ending in -ly has to be an adverb. Just a few that aren't:
While there are loads of adjectives with an -ly ending (related to -like), some of my favorite -ly words that are not adverbs are nouns. It is sometimes fun to me to imagine them as adverbs, and contrive what their root meaning might be:
belly
ally
lily
supply (which, could be the noun for the goods you have on hand, or the adverb related to supple.)
barfly (It's not too hard to imagine what this might mean as an adverb: "I'll never have another Cosmopolitan," said the barfly barfly.)
contumely
I also have an odd fascination with the adjectives that end in -ly that can form adverbs ending in -lily. They just seem so wrong, and yet, so right:
friendlily
holily
jollily
uglily
melancholily
But several also serve unchanged as both adjective and adverb:
gingerly
For some, you have the option of two adverbial forms, one unchanged, and one with -ly:
livelily / lively
surlily / surly
sillily / silly
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
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