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A thesaurus can be harmful
Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
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1
2008/08/06 - 5:45am

My latest column in the Malaysia Star. “Please don't use a thesaurus. It does terrible things to your writing. Yes, that's right. Do yourself a favour and forget about thesauruses. They're harmful unless used correctly.”

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2
2008/08/06 - 8:45am

Very well said. Maybe it's appropriate that the word "thesaurus" sounds like a kind of dinosaur.

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
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3
2008/08/06 - 10:39pm

Very well said to you both!

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4
2009/03/27 - 10:33am

The same damage can be done in some public-speaking groups. There is an organized chapter of one such group at one former employer. I once attended to hear a colleague do a presentation. One practice was to have someone provide a word of the day. Each person was encouraged to use that word somehow in what they said.

Now, a lot of nonnative English speakers attended these meetings. And many were painfully misled.

On this occasion, the word was "wax." The presenter correctly presented several different definitions and uses, including the "polish" meaning, as in using furniture wax. "Polish" was listed as a synonym.

Then disaster struck. The president of the chapter, who IS a native English speaker, stood up to introduce the next presentation, and referred to the person as "a waxed public speaker." Waxed? Then it occurred to me that she meant "polished" in the sense of accomplished. Impossible!

Every person after that misused the word "waxed" in exactly the same way. It made me feel ill each time. I never attended such a meeting again.

Guest
5
2009/03/27 - 2:37pm

This is funny: After all the dire warnings and desperate pleadings, he inserts the disclaimer they're harmless unless used correctly. I'm sorry, but it is not very well said! Anyway, who cares about the people who don't use a thesaurus correctly? Isn't that the same waste of time as caring about the people who don't use grammar correctly? Fugetaboutit and spend your precious time enjoying beautiful language! In fact, I say we should all start singing opera-style to each other. At least then people who sing well but have bad grammar can sound good, too.

Grant Barrett
San Diego, California
1532 Posts
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6
2009/03/27 - 2:41pm

I wrote "harmFUL unless used correctly"--and then went on to explain that many people do not use them correctly. As for who cares about that misuse? I care! As someone who makes such lexical works, I care very much how and why users do not use my output as it was intended.

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7
2009/03/27 - 2:42pm

Glenn, are you sure that the wax gaffe wasn't a joke? Even if it wasn't it's hilarious!

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8
2009/03/27 - 3:14pm

Sadly, I am sure it was not an INTENTIONAL joke. Each time it was misused, I started to break out afresh into a sweat. It only became mildly funny to me in retrospect -- mostly because I imagined her having strange insight into the speaker's personal grooming habits.

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9
2009/03/29 - 8:18pm

I wrote “harmFUL unless used correctly”–

Thanks for the correction, and the point I was making works much better using harmful. If you are involved with the making of thesauri (first time I've had to use that word!), I can understand why you might care more about their use. As for caring whether a product is misused, it must really be tough for the folks who make golf balls!

Ron Draney
721 Posts
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10
2009/03/30 - 1:54am

Glenn said:

Then disaster struck. The president of the chapter, who IS a native English speaker, stood up to introduce the next presentation, and referred to the person as “a waxed public speaker.” Waxed? Then it occurred to me that she meant “polished” in the sense of accomplished. Impossible!

Every person after that misused the word “waxed” in exactly the same way. It made me feel ill each time. I never attended such a meeting again.


Have you run across the habit of some ESL-speakers of using the word "doubt" to mean "question"? I'm sure any decent thesaurus lists them as synonyms, if only for the way they're nearly interchangeable as verbs, but it sends chills down your spine when someone who's reviewed your hundred-page proposal opens the international phone conference by saying "we have a number of doubts about what you have told us".

Guest
11
2009/03/30 - 5:31am

That is a new one to me. Although my experience above could be a key into how localized oddities could crop up.

Guest
12
2009/03/31 - 7:51pm

“we have a number of doubts about what you have told us”.

Good example, but is that an instance of using a thesaurus incorrectly or simply an instance of lack of knowledge with the language? I'd guess it is the latter.

Guest
13
2009/05/20 - 1:58pm

I have a number of clients (mostly native Italian- or Spanish-speakers) who routinely use 'doubt' where I would use 'question.' I think samaphore is on the right track.

Question and doubt do have similar meanings. In some cases, they're interchangeable:
Without question, that is true.
Without a doubt, that is true.

and the distinction between them is a subtlety that non-native speakers would have trouble getting without a lot of experience. In the case of Italian (dubbia) and Spanish (duda) there are native words that are very similar. It may also be a case of 'false cognates' in that they're using 'doubt' in English where they'd use dubbia/duda in their native language.

I have a similar issue with the native French-speakers...they send me lists of "user demands" that aren't demands, but requests. The French word for 'request' is 'demande'...it'd be a very, very easy mistake for them to make.

Arte

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14
2010/03/06 - 9:24pm

I like what Billy Collins has to say about thesauri:

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Thesaurus

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It could be the name of a prehistoric beast
that roamed the Paleozoic earth, rising up
on its hind legs to show off its large vocabulary,
or some lover in a myth who is metamorphosed into a book.

It means treasury, but it is just a place
where words congregate with their relatives,
a big park where hundreds of family reunions
are always being held,
house, home, abode, dwelling, lodgings, and digs,
all sharing the same picnic basket and thermos;
hairy, hirsute, woolly, furry, fleecy, and shaggy
all running a sack race or throwing horseshoes,
inert, static, motionless, fixed and immobile
standing and kneeling in rows for a group photograph.

Here father is next to sire and brother close
to sibling, separated only by fine shades of meaning.
And every group has its odd cousin, the one
who traveled the farthest to be here:
astereognosis, polydipsia, or some eleven
syllable, unpronounceable substitute for the word tool.
Even their own relatives have to squint at their name tags.

I can see my own copy up on a high shelf.
I rarely open it, because I know there is no
such thing as a synonym and because I get nervous
around people who always assemble with their own kind,
forming clubs and nailing signs to closed front doors
while others huddle alone in the dark streets.

I would rather see words out on their own, away
from their families and the warehouse of Roget,
wandering the world where they sometimes fall
in love with a completely different word.
Surely, you have seen pairs of them standing forever
next to each other on the same line inside a poem,
a small chapel where weddings like these,
between perfect strangers, can take place.

Billy Collins

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15
2010/04/13 - 5:20pm

Seems to me that the problem with the mighty Tyranothesaurus Rex is that it presents words that fall within a wide spectrum of shades of meaning as if they were exact synonyms - "polish" and "wax" being a fine example. I think the best way to build your vocabulary is to read as much well-written English as you can get your paws on, and grab a dictionary when a new word isn't sufficiently defined by its context. It takes longer, of course, but works 100% better in the long run. I never did like thesauruses, and I'm glad to see others agree. Same for "word of the day" exercises.

johng423
129 Posts
(Offline)
16
2010/04/14 - 10:34am

The Wikipedia entry includes this:

"Although including synonyms, a thesaurus should not be taken as a complete list of all the synonyms for a particular word. The entries are also designed for drawing distinctions between similar words and assisting in choosing exactly the right word. [emphasis added] Unlike a dictionary, a thesaurus entry does not define words."

I remember reading (somewhere) that Roget's thesaurus was intended to show the different (not similar) meanings of words so the writer could/would choose the appropriate one. (Grant, from your lexicographical studies, can you confirm this?) I would like to use a thesaurus that way, but it does not give definitions or usage notes so it's not useful for learning the shades of meaning within a grouping.

Guest
17
2010/08/14 - 11:10am

Glenn, it's clear you're not in the computer industry. In my business we have, as you may have heard, an increasing number of Indian workers and every single usage of "doubt" for "question" that I've ever heard comes from them; clearly in their various native languages they use one word for both concepts. I'm used to it now and don't hesitate for a second when an Indian writes "I have a doubt..."; I know he's about to ask a question. And I agree with ArteNow that the shared meaning is clear enough. But it does seem to me that it's an issue that ESL teachers could emphasize a bit more.

(Now it'll turn out you ARE in the computer industry. I took a shot.)

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