Discussion Forum (Archived)
Guest
I just read a draft from a lawyer discussing a mathematical display, which should make it obvious that language issues are about to erupt.
The sentence that stuck sideways going down was, "A number of curves is displayed." My first thought was, "they're not literally going to display a number ("2"!), they're going to display curves. As in, "Two curves are displayed", or "Several curves are displayed." But "A number of curves is displayed"?!
Clearly "a number" is singular. But "curves" is plural and "a number" could be semanticly equivalent to "several".
I want to say "a number of curves ARE displayed". But, I guess the fundamental question is: is "a number" the noun, or is "curves" the noun? Which is the noun and which the modifying phrase? Or is it just too late at night to be editing?
(At least, in my confusion, I got to ask if what it is, is... Me and Bill Clinton! *That* was fun!)
While everyone else was enjoying Christmas, I was telling another online language forum about the label on a box of wart-removal stuff:
Removes warts fast
with as few as
1 treatment
We've spent the last two days arguing about that one. Some have suggested rewording it in ways that seem to promise it will always work on the first attempt.
In any event, your lawyer may have forgotten something that math and engineering types know instinctively: that "one" is a number!
"A number of ... is ..." does seem correct in terms of the formal rules of grammar but "A number ... are ..." feels more natural when I say it. I guess "a number of" is sort of acting as a single word, like "several". However, I am not sure it means the same thing as "several". To me, it seems like a number of curves could be a single curve or no curves.
The phrase "as few as 1 treatment" is logically vacuous (Could you imagine it working in fewer than one treatment?) and is certainly meant to deceive but I do not see a grammatical issue.
Bill 5 said:
I want to say "a number of curves ARE displayed". But, I guess the fundamental question is: is "a number" the noun, or is "curves" the noun? Which is the noun and which the modifying phrase? Or is it just too late at night to be editing?
A bunch of style guides agree on this. A lot of people question this sort of thing. A few examples show hypercorrection.
All of the above, along with a number of, are considered partitives for countables. In all cases, the subject appears to be syntactically singular, but the noun that follows is always plural and, when the phrase is the subject, the verb is always plural.
Many guides are careful to point out that the number of behaves quite differently: it is followed by a plural noun, but takes a singular verb.
Very cool, thank you.
(Just when I thought I had finally finished figuring out the subjunctive case, I had to look up the >partitive< case!
It makes perfect sense that "A number of xxx" is plural xxx's, while "THE number of" is a number (singular).
By the way, in the document, I finally reached where the lawyer defined "a number" as meaning one or more. I would have used "some". But I'm sure there's case law driving the word choice. I'll still correct his document's verbs, and make it "a number of xxx ARE ..."
Thanks!
I have been thinking all day about the meaning of "as few as". It seems that it specifies the greatest lower bound of the range of a varying quantity. "X is as few as N." means that N is the smallest value that is realized by X. So "works in as few as one 1 treatment" means that a single treatment has been sufficient in at least one (and possibly only one) case.
Quite so, "as few as 1 treatment" means it COULD work in 1 treatment. Or take more treatments, but never less. (And, as you noted, saying it actually has to be applied at least once is truly a worthless statement. Even homeopathy requires you to apply a minute amount of the material to potentially have an effect.)
I suspect that the advertising standard is less rigorous than you credit it -- I think that if it *hypothetically* could work in 1 treatment, they may well say that. Kind of like the power of positive thinking. It may never have actually HAPPENED that it worked in 1 treatment, but it COULD work in as few as 1 treatment...
Color me skeptical...
Martha Barnette
Grant Barrett
Grant Barrett
1 Guest(s)